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This is why Sniper is Broken

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by ViscountSniffit, 4 May 2018.

  1. Rainbow Warrior

    Rainbow Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Wow that'd be tough to know for sure, even 100 shots wouldn't be enough to prove it... I guess only a dev could know for sure
     
    Djradnad likes this.
  2. Djradnad

    Djradnad Well-Known Member

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    Ya I feel like a dev did it from the feedback but secretly to see if anyone noticed lol
     
    FearsomeChicken likes this.
  3. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    When I'm an enforcer is the only time I don't worry about snipes. It's gonna be fun at mk6 tho lol
     
  4. Rainbow Warrior

    Rainbow Warrior Well-Known Member

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    OMG great profile picture :) devs, please do an event with that skin :D
     
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  5. Jasper21

    Jasper21 Active Member

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    You’re saying how sniper hits you from far once you’ve been spotted and how the unfriends gaining map control using sniper’s long range ability to “limit” your movement in battles, but these are the characteristics of a sniper cannon. Some people here suggested to spread the talent tree (which I actually support), some suggested to reduce sniper’s power in close range, but these changes won’t prevent you from getting hit from long range, they won’t help with what you’re suffering from.

    I think your problem is more about playstyle and strategy. Every ship has different roles, and you need to play strategically and use the suitable weapons/items to maximize your ship’s ability. As an mk5 speeder without a Tesla shield with 4k ish hp, I really don’t think it’s a good idea for you to expose yourself/scout right at the start of a battle. When I was an mk5 speeder (similar to your ship, EC+flare combo, 4.4k hp) I used to stay back, and only expose myself and get in shooting range when the unfriends were busy shooting my teammates, or speed to help my teammate (who’s 1vs1 with unfriend) to create numerical advantage. I did the same even when my speeder get to mk6 with 7k hp. You need to be patient and not be focused from the start and wait for the right time, that’s what I think a support speeder should do (since you’re mk5 with low hp it’s best to play the support role).

    The replay that you shared (the Crash N Burn battle) I think you did well, and that’s what I’d like to see in my battle: players exchanging shots at one side of the map and I can sneak in from the other side. The difference is that, you were forced to hide after getting hit by sniper from the beginning. Had you not been shot (by not exposing yourself) and stayed behind cover and waited for the right time to go out, that would be a much better/easier victory.

    The first 45 secs of the game we need to be alert of torps, staying in open water and you’re susceptible to railgun/sniper shos, but when in close range that’s where flare/EC/BC/grenade excels.
     
  6. A55A51N

    A55A51N Well-Known Member

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    The problem at least for me is that it’s equally effective at all ranges. If its short range capabilities would be nerfed, the long range crits wouldn’t be so bad, because i just know that all i have to do is to get close.
     
    Hokuse likes this.
  7. danielCragere

    danielCragere New Member

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    Again this topic....
    Moderators, hello??
     
  8. Aswin

    Aswin Active Member

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    Sniper canon is balanced if you reduce / remove the critical :)
     
  9. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    Nope. That will kill it in NML.
    Well, it hasn't been resolved yet, I don't see why not.
    Do we have a consensus tho?

    Nerf the sniper cannon's short range capability.

    Spread talents.

    Are these the two perfect nerfs?
     
    Nikkie! and A55A51N like this.
  10. Jasper21

    Jasper21 Active Member

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    IMO the sniper’s inconsistent/unpredictable damage output is its weakness, and I would say sniper isn’t reliable at close range.

    Spreading talents, on the other hand, is a more appropriate “balancing” to sniper, as it would make sniper weaker at lower levels/leagues and not affect NML.
     
    danielCragere likes this.
  11. A55A51N

    A55A51N Well-Known Member

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    It is a weakness, but i said that its effectiveness is the same at all ranges, unlike rg and lrm.
    What are you talking about when you say it isn’t reliable at close range? It requires absolutely no leading, and is almost a guaranteed hit every time you press a button.
     
    ViscountSniffit and TheAntiSnipe like this.
  12. A55A51N

    A55A51N Well-Known Member

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    I’d say we do, either short or long range nerf (and since it’s a sniper, leave the long range). I don’t know about talents, because i haven't played Ace or Master in a while, but that can’t hurt.
     
    TheAntiSnipe likes this.
  13. Jasper21

    Jasper21 Active Member

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    Consistent damage output = reliable
    Inconsistent damage output = unreliable
    I wouldn’t count on sniper to crit and finish off an unfriend because at best 55% of time it won’t crit.

    On hitting your target, at close range it’s easy for BC/EC/Flare to hit their target too. I’m curious why many people keep highlighting “no leading needed” when discussing about sniper. If you find leading shot of other weapons difficult, you should improve your skill. Continuously mentioning how sniper is so easy and convenient to use isn’t gonna help your game.
     
    Rainbow Warrior likes this.
  14. R4Z0R

    R4Z0R Well-Known Member

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    why do u wanna know?
    the point is that because the projectile speed is so frickin fast there is no leading required at close range and 45% crit chance are the best odds in the game for critting and the crit dmg is insane 1000+ thus it is OP and so many people use it and its becoming annoying
     
  15. ElMataC

    ElMataC Member

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    I came here after around 5 pages of new comments so I don't really know what's been going on, but I want to reply to this.

    First I didn't really get what your "you don't?" refers to;

    Then I'm sorry if I sound offensive but I feel that this discussion is going nowhere if even when replying at a post that points out that we're not discussing on actual data, you reply ignoring the provided data.

    Lastly I gonna respond to the "name ONE weapon from any PvP game that is long range and suffers no penalties at close range." thing, even if I feel it's stupid since if we wanted a game that has no uniqueness except for its aesthetics, we could all just go play random same games. 1) Snipers in every FPS ever, they don't lose effectiveness in close range, they just get outclassed by other weapons in short range, and so it is in battle bay (oh and in the large majority of cases if you hit a sniper shot at close range in FPS you straight out kill your opponent); 2) I personally play LoL, so I'm gonna throw in every skillshot that doesn't involve the length-scaling (the thing you'd like to have with the SC), and those are 99% of skillshots in the game (in this case, the closer the target, the easier the hit, or in case of fixed travel time, same effectiveness at any range);

    That being said, I can see your point of vewing SC as too good of an all-rounder, but giving it a decrease in power inversely proportional to the shot range I think would be a problem for 2 reasons:
    1) SC would become just the 1 slot weaker version of Railgun (almost)
    2) This I think is more important: if you look at the "data" that Miika himself provided, SC is already doing less damage than the other cannons, and to keep it balanced with a damage reduction at close ranges it would need a damage increase at long range, therefore making it even worse to play against
     
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  16. Jasper21

    Jasper21 Active Member

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    The projectile speed of a sniper is meant to be fast and the high crit chance is what makes sniper cannon usable in this game. And to say 1000+ damage is insane, I guess you’re at a lower level now (no offence, everyone starts from the bottom), there are much more powerful weapons at higher levels. That’s why I’m supportive of the idea of spreading talents so that sniper only gains its full power at T4 and above, just like BC/EC.

    Lastly, an item is being widely used doesn’t necessarily mean it’s OP. In the case of sniper cannon, I always believe the high usage is the result of a lack of option for long range point damage weapon (only sniper and railgun).

    Edit: if some of you haven’t read this thread, you should now. It’s 24 pages long though, but you can read different analysis of sniper vs blast cannon and why it’s not as OP/broken as many have claimed it to be.
    https://forum.battlebay.net/threads/why-is-the-sniper-cannon-balanced.18207/
     
    Last edited: 6 May 2018
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  17. SeaNavy

    SeaNavy Well-Known Member

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    First of all, have you ever used sniper? Pressing the button isn't a automatic hit. Everyone just assumes that it will always hit at close range, but that's not true. You still need to lead your shots for fast ships. And also, can't a grenade have higher crit chance than sniper?
     
  18. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    About those, you DO need more skill to land noscopes and quickscopes, I know from experience, cross-map noscoper here;)
    All but one skillshot(Ashe's Arrow) impact ONLY the first enemy they run into, and since there's no "arc", skillshots need actual skill. You cannot have a minion getting in your way. Comparing a 2D game to a 3D shooter is... Odd.

    I'm okay with being hit at long range. Hike crit chance at long range for all I care. I think many share my viewpoint; sniper needs a closerange nerf, even if it comes at the cost of a long range buff. Since being deadly at range is its defining attribute, I don't see why it should be strengthened there while weakening it at close range.
     
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  19. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    Also, this discussion has continued because:
    1. It is civil as of now
    2. Sniper cannons may be balanced in terms of damage overall as of now, BUT they are unfair in leagues where players have 4k or less HP and they deal 1.5-1.6k HP worth of damage, even at CLOSE range, when they are supposed to be long range weapons.

    Again, if the devs buff its iong range characteristics at the cost of close range crit chance, it'll have no net effect on the weapons overall damage, especially in applications where it is actually used for its defining attribute.

    For real snipers, this "nerf" will be a buff. For those people who spam it and use it for EZ close range brawling, it'll be a nerf... Fair to everyone, wouldn't you agree?
     
  20. ElMataC

    ElMataC Member

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    On this last point I do agree, I would get more value out of it myself, but I'm willing to bet that the nerf SC threads would pop up even more if it would get a damage buff from range.

    I'm glad it still is :)

    Again, I agree with this, I was seeing talents redistribution sugestions way before these nerf sniper threads came out


    About the comparison between wepons of other games, please understand that you can't just say that the comparison doesn't properly hold up because the weapon/skill use involves different mechanics, since they are in fact different games, that's why I said I felt like it was a pointless point :)D) to make from the beginning. I would actually have something to say about the points you made on my picks, but I'm not going to since I do not believe they're useful for this thread.

    To summarize what I think:
    I do support the talent spread for SC to higher levels
    Since I do NOT think SC is an overall overpowered weapon, I think that damage decrease at close range with compensation buff for long range could work balance wise, but I strongly feel (and I 100% could be wrong about that) that it would make complains towards SC even worse
     

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