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League rewards - Event rewards

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by Nicolas, 13 Aug 2018.

  1. Nicolas

    Nicolas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24 Nov 2017
    Messages:
    484
    Hello,

    Screenshot_20180813-033929.png
    Screenshot_20180812-145429.png
    As shown above, these are my position and infamy in the last season in nightmare league.
    This is my best achievement in Battle Bay so far, because I reached Top3 in global and Top7 in nightmare.
    My infamy now is back to 4000 because of infamy reset system.

    The problem is: I don't feel like im a nightmare player. Season rewards are useless compared to event rewards. In nightmare, there's no much difference in rewards between rank4+ to rank2000+. Everyone in nightmare (excluding top3 players) get one legendary piece - 30 legendary parts - 5 epic pieces and 30 epic parts (top 10 players get legendary power cells instead of epic parts).

    It's pointless to play for 12 days, and gain some infamy to get these useless rewards while I can play couple days per week without risking any infamy, and get much better rewards (ppl complete 2/3 rounds per each events, so they got at least 12 legendary pieces 4-5 legendary perks from events per season).
    On the other hand, ppl in low leagues get the same rewards (league rewards is negligible compared to event rewards).

    • Why should I keep playing and keep gaining infamy? (Ignoring the fact that my infamy will be back to 4k each season).
    • What is the difference between me and a random player around 500 infamy? (We both get the same event rewards)
    • What is the difference between me and a nightmare player who spends most time around 3500 infamy with ace players? (We both get the same league rewards)

    I don't know how things are going on in this game. I feel like devs are following this strategy: let's lose top players who spent more than a year in the game, and let's gain some new players who will play the game for couple weeks.

    If you didn't notice yet: newbies won't feel like they have to gain infamy to climb to another league. It's pointless to gain infamy when we can stay in low leagues face weak players and gain op rewards. If you gain infamy, then you should face stronger opponents. Right?
    • Why do they need to gain infamy? When they gain infamy, it will be harder to collect op rewards, so they will stay in low leagues to gain and build more op gear. (Sealclubbers list will become much longer).
    • Why do we need skills when we can easily build op weapons?
    • Why to spend some money on some expensive boxes while we can play couple days to collect what is equivalent to 300$ epic boxes?

    Do u want to know what high infamy players have to face each season?
    • When infamy is so high (5200+), matching takes 2mins+ (solo)/5mins+ (in fleet with 4000+ player)/ 10mins+ (in fleet with another 5000+ player)/ if u are in Top10 u won't get a match while in fleet (20mins+ matching).
    Note: multiple these numbers by two during events.
    • Teams are so predictable: if you check your friends list, then you can easily predict who you are going to face in the battle. You will face your online op friend. (Most op players are friends. We memorize all op players setups/tactics)
    • Teams are so unbalanced which is so weird after 5mins+ matching. (Example: If im in Top10)
    My team: Im the only one at 5200+, and my teammates are Ace I players (at 3000-3500 infamy).
    Enemy team: All Nightmare players (at 4300-4800)
    I have to carry my team who die in the first minute. 1- If we won, we all get +15/+19. (Ignoring the fact that I got three stars, and I did 80% of my team dmg). 2- If we lose, we all get –27/–33. (Ignoring the fact that I got two stars, and I did 80%+ of my team dmg).
    • Very long battles which end up 3v5 or 2v5 quickly.
    • Any mistake is unacceptable, and it will cost u the match.
    • Season rewards are useless unless you are aiming for Top3. All rewards (Including top 3 rewards) don't reflect the wasted time while matching/ the hard work during matches

    This is why many Top players don't push for infamy


    Solution:
    • League rewards should be improved, and event rewards should be adjusted based on leagues. People will have to gain infamy to get better rewards. Sealclubbers will have to gain infamy. New players should feel that they are doing some valuable progress in the game, and that they will get more rewards when they gain more infamy.

    • Infamy reset to nightmare league should be TEMPORARILY increased to 4500 to keep a difference between nightmare players, and Ace I players who reached nightmare. Otherwise, new nightmare players will easily drop infamy against veterans who were at 5k+ few hours ago. Reason: Infamy reset isn't the major issue. If we reset the infamy to 4500, then we will face the same problem in couple months. Nightmare players will ask to change it from 4500 to 5000. Infamy system should be reorganized. Maybe, increasing the base infamy in nightmare from 4000 to 4500 or 5000 will give us some time to find a solution to this problem. Changing reset point from 4000 to 4500 or 5000 is a temporary solution. It won't solve the problem.

    • We need more leagues. The current infamy reset is 4000. All people above this infamy go back to 4000 in the next season. This system was made when the game was launched, so there weren't much players yet. Today there are around 23k active players.

    • Increase league rewards & adjust events. Currently, ranked games are less appealing from events. (Specially for nightmare players). The game is so repetitive for all Top players. Also, league rewards are so useless compared to event rewards (Nightmare league rewards are negligible compared to event rewards. What can we say about ace and lower leagues rewards?). People will play more ranked games, and people won't intentionally drop any infamy. In other words, all players who are capable of gaining infamy (sealclubbers/op players in low leagues) will try to gain more infamy to climb to higher leagues (simply because they want these new op league rewards). We need better season rewards to play regulars and gain infamy again. Else, u will see more ppl intentionally dropping infamy, and they will play for couple days per week (event days). Give us better league rewards, and adjust events rewards to make them equally appealing. Let's do some calculations. Average players finish two rounds in each event per season: Two events per season. This means four rounds per season. Im assuming that ppl will stop spending coins when they get the 6th legendary piece per each event which is equivalent to 2,100 battle coins = 60 box per event/ 120 box per season.
    • Legendary pieces: 2x2x3=12 legendary pieces
    • Epic pieces: 2x2x1.25=5 epic pieces
    • Rare pieces: 2x2x23.5=94 rare pieces
    • Legendary perks: 2x2x1=4 legendary perks
    Season rewards for nightmare league:
    • 1 Legendary piece
    • 5 Epic pieces
    • 30 Legendary parts
    • 30 Epic parts
    In other words, events are x10 more appealing then ranked games in nightmare. It's x100 more appealing then ranked games in low leagues.
    If we adjust event rewards and if we improve leagues rewards, then op ppl at low leagues will gain infamy to climb to higher leagues. They are capable of gaining infamy, so they will gain infamy to get these new season rewards. In couple weeks, u won't see anymore op ppl at low leagues. On the other hand, current event rewards and league rewards push more ppl to drop infamy. They liked how it's easy to destroy weak opponents in events. Soon, they will drop infamy (since current league rewards are useless) to face weak opponents in ranked games too. Their events rewards won't be affected, and they will get easier matches.
    I didn't play any ranked matches in this season. I usually face 5k ppl at this time of the season. My infamy is at 4k since infamy reset, so I will face "weak" opponents now. Im sure that there are many ppl who aren't pushing for infamy as they used to do before the events. When event ends ppl say: "what's the next event?". ppl don't care about ranked games anymore with this rewards system. I won't intentionally drop infamy, but I won't push for infamy with the current rewards system. Im sure that there are many op players who are dropping 1k+ infamy per season now. (There are nightmare players who dropped to 1k infamy in this season).
    Events rewards and leagues rewards are too unbalanced. Events rewards should be adjusted based on leagues, and leagues rewards should be improved. Then, u will see more ppl gaining infamy. op ppl at low leagues will gain 1k+ infamy per season, and they will be back to Ace soon.

    Edit:
    I'm back after two months.
    Can you guys give me some feedback regarding your experience in events/the game in general?
    How much did the events op rewards affect the game so far?
    Are you still pushing for infamy?
    Are you still enjoying the ranked games? or did it turn out that ranked are useless and boring?
    Did the number of sealclubbers in ranked games decrease? or did it turn out that more players are intentionally dropping infamy now?
    Did the number of sealclubbers in events decrease? or did it turn out that more players are sealclubbing?
    Do new players still aim for infamy? or did it turn out that new players only care about events rewards?
    Do new players use their best gear in events? or did it turn out that all new players keep mk1 ship with weak gear for events?
    Did op events rewards solve sealclubbers issue? or did it turn out that the problem is worst now?
    In general,
    What's your feedback? and What did you experience in the game in the last two months?


    Thank you,
    • WarHawk •
     
    Last edited: 30 Sep 2018
  2. Djradnad

    Djradnad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Congrats on making that rank!

    After reading your post, I agree that season rewards should be increased to be on par with event rewards.
     
  3. PastelPiku

    PastelPiku Well-Known Member

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    I think a second Nightmare Tier at like 4500~5000 infamy would be cool.
     
  4. Ash KOT

    Ash KOT MVP

    Joined:
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    Problem with the game is balancing the new players and old timers.
    Allowing new players to progress and giving old timers something to work for.
    The infamy vs gear is completely broken right now.

    You see nightmare players saying you can reach NML in a MK4 with rare items.
    Whilst this may have been true historically, it certainly isnt now.

    I have just entered Ace for the 3rd time, my infamy floats around 2200-2400.
    I have some great gear, a T5 Epic Blast, a T4 epic sniper, a T4 epic fire bomb, but yet it is so hard to climb any higher.
    Not because I am useless, or play wrecklessly, its that everyone else has the same gear as me.

    Many players at 2000 infamy have nightmare league set ups with T5 epics, and the other day I had 5 straight losses with me doing 20k+ damage in each match.
    It is not possible to win matches single handedly repeatedly.

    If rewards get buffed at the top end, this means end game gear gets even better, which means when NML reset happens, the weaker NML players get pushed down the chain and start feeding on the ace players and so on. So whilst I agree that NML should be rewarded with the best loot, we need to deal with the infamy system as something is clearly not right when MK6 boats with T5 epics are struggling to stay out of master league.

    I am not just talking from my experience, I have spoken to people in game, on discord, and also checked profiles in the event, and it is a widespread issue.
    With the system working on a 50 / 50 win loss ratio, and having people stuck with the same gear it is too hard to chain enough wins to climb higher.

    I can roll with people at my infamy, so win some / lose some and infamy remains around the same.
    I honestly think if my infamy was changed to 3500 then I would similarly win some and lose some, as my gear and skills are good enough and I would stay around 3500.

    What I would love to see is one of the outspoken players at 4000 infamy, insulting players like myself for only being 2300 with my gear, have their infamy reset to 2000 and see how long it takes to climb back to NML, I know it would be a lot harder than when they did it the first time round ;)
     
  5. Nicolas

    Nicolas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Battle Bay already lost a lot of veterans. I mentioned in my post that i might not grind for infamy again. It pointless to gain infamy with these useless league rewards. In other words, add me to the list of ex-players.
    Everything now is for newbies: Let's help newbies... Newbies rewards should be improved... I mentioned in my post that new players will leave the game quickly. they will play for couple weeks/months then they will leave. No one like easily collected gear. They will say that it's so easy to build these op weapons... okay... Let's leave... We can easily build another op profile... This is so obvious, because of all mini-accounts.
    They will leave because it's pointless to gain infamy to get useless rewards compared to event rewards. ppl should gain infamy to get better rewards.
    I talk to many new players in discord. Many said that they just play in the event. They are just collecting op gear, and at some point they will lose their desire to collect weapons. They will just leave the game.
    If other leagues had similar infamy reset as nightmare, I believe that u won't be able to reach 2000 infamy. ur point of view is: everything is based on 50:50 system, so we ur infamy will reset to 2000 u will keep dropping infamy which isn't true.
    Explain why I gain 1000k+ infamy in couple days while other ppl drop 500+ infamy in one day. I keep gaining infamy each season to 5300+. According to ur system I should drop to 2700- infamy.
    u need skills to reach nightmare. I was a newbie at some point. I climb from a league to another. In each league, u will learn something new. This is how u build skills.
    The only thing that new players learned from this event system is sealclubbing.
    u have enough skills to stay around 2000 infamy. u don't have the skills to reach 3500 infamy. im saying this just because when I started playing this game, i was at 500 infamy, and I had friends around 3000 infamy. Now, im at 5500, and they are still playing against ace players at 3000 infamy. Are they skilled? yes they have enough skills to stay in Ace. Do they have op weapons? yes they have maxed epic and t2-t3 legendary.
    ppl who have skills, and ppl who want to learn something from every league will gain enough skills to climb to the next league.
    ppl who say that it's a 50:50 system will stay in low leagues while blaming this system. when u blame other ppl on their faults, and u don't see ur faults, u won't gain any skills. u win one game then oops u hitted a mine or a torp in the next game, then u say it's a 50:50 system.
    ppl who wants to improve their skills will gain infamy. otherwise, they will stay in low leagues whatever op weapons they have.
    Anyway, im not affected by these sealclubbers and op rewards. u can't buy skills, and u can't gain skills if ur not ready to do so.
    Again, I gained 1300+ infamy in couple days. I won 1v5 against all nightmare players. It's so easy to gain infamy for me. Put me in warrior, and I will gain infamy to reach nightmare in couple weeks.

    I already decided to quit the game.
    Goodluck against sealclubbers. ppl will never gain skills against them.
    From my perspective, this system is totally wrong, and it will give you a sick game.
    u need to give ppl higher rewards, so they will gain infamy to get it.
    Sealclubbers won't stay in low leagues. They will keep improving/gaining skills/gaining infamy to deserve op league rewards. No op league rewards means that no one has the desire to gain infamy.
     
  6. CaffeinatedChris

    CaffeinatedChris MVP

    Joined:
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    [​IMG]
    Stop it. Argue his point without just namecalling.
     
  7. Ash KOT

    Ash KOT MVP

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,101
    I will reply to this post, since its shorter :)
    Thanks for taking the time to reply, I want balance just like you, and I opened my post by saying I agree the game needs to offer more for veterans.

    The fact you got to top 10 in the world, shows you that you are a special player in this game, and have very high skill level.
    I was referring to an average skill level player in nightmare, who got there historically a long time ago, they have farmed lots of good loot and have great weapons allowing them to stay at around the same infamy.

    They are playing guys with T5 epics and are winning / losing half of their games.
    Some will drift under 4000 and some will go higher than 4000, but you know the player base I am talking about.

    It is one of these that if dropped to 2000 would have the same results here as they have in high ace since all the opponents are using the same weapons.

    Trouble is the longer we keep the same mechanics the worse the problem becomes.
    In 12 months we will have MK7 and T5 epics in master league.

    When I first started playing last year, master league was MK4 / MK5 ships using T4 rare and T3 epics.
    Now it is MK6 boats using T5 epics.

    Before you could make some nice epic gear, which would overpower the MK4 / 5 boats and allow you to progress up the chain.
    Now you need MK6 ships and T5 epics just to hang at the bottom of Ace league.

    Dont quit, you clearly have invested a lot of time into the game and are a skilled player, the bay needs you :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 13 Aug 2018
    SlayerofSergeants and Nicolas like this.
  8. Nicolas

    Nicolas Well-Known Member

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    I know these players. This is why we should get a different infamy reset system. They spend most of the season around 3200-3500 infamy, and we both get the same rewards.
    They have enough skills to stay in Ace league, and somehow in nightmare league.
    However, from my perspective only ppl above 4500 infamy deserve being called nightmare players.
     
    Mr. Joseph and Help I Cant Swim like this.
  9. Stelmo

    Stelmo Well-Known Member

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    @Ash KOT so everybody having the same gear as you stops your progress?
    Odd.
    When I was climbing to 4k I had 2950hp in my mk5 enfo and T4 rare gear.
    Everybody else was sporting max epics and ships an evo or 2 above mine and I was one shot more often than I care to remember.

    I really don't see how a more even playing field for you lot is making things more difficult, and I absolutely don't think I'd have any trouble regaining infamy if I was reset to 2000.
     
  10. Nicolas

    Nicolas Well-Known Member

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    My point of view is so clear:
    • Adjust event rewards
    • Improve season rewards
    Then u will see less sealclubbers. More players will gain infamy to gain more powerful rewards. No one will intentionally drop infamy or gear score... Fair matches... No more op players in low leagues which will give more space for new players.
     
  11. CaffeinatedChris

    CaffeinatedChris MVP

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    Back on topic.

    No more pointing fingers about who specifically is or isn't a seal clubber, and talk about the core issues here:

    1. Event rewards are currently much better than season rewards
    2. This leads to a large amount of intentional gear-score dropping in events
    3. It also makes ranked play less appealing
    4. Nightmare reset is still an issue
     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2018
  12. Djradnad

    Djradnad Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with stelmo, I fall in around the 4K mark and I would have no problem climbing from 2k, heck I would love to get reset down to there XD

    When I originally got to NM it was easier than it is now sure, but since getting 4500 the first couple times I’ve just been waiting on blue duplicates before trying for 5k to get better rewards, so I’ve just been adding new weapons to my arsenal and trying them out which keeps me around 4K, obviously I fall under 4K when the reset occurs and then each day gets easier to the point that if I fell to 3500 at the beginning of the season and didn’t play for a week I would feel like a sealclubber getting penta kills fairly often.
     
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  13. ShipCrusherCz

    ShipCrusherCz Well-Known Member

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    Does it really matter?
    roger that, will stay on topic
    I still see one major problem
    basing event rewards on leagues is pointless, infamy has no role in event matchamking so why it should be the deciding factor for rewards? better would be gear score based rewards system, but that would need rework of gear score
    if the idea you suggested was implemented, seal ckubbing issue would become even worse
    nothing would stop high infamy players from intentionally dropping gear score to face low(er) infamy, low(er) gear score players, they would recieve better rewards and would have much easier battles because of seal clubbing
    gear score based rewards (if done right) would prevent players from seal clubbing, they would be encouraged to use their best gear to get high rewards, not to drop gear score to face much weaker opponents, yet get better rewards than those new players

    I agree that season rewards should be increased or at least adjusted, but for all leagues
    there is no point in giving players common, uncommon and maybe even rare power cells when it's pointless to upgrade commons and uncommons
    I also agree that NM reset should be at higher infamy or new, higher league could be implemented, remove NM infamy reset and reset infamy in the new league, that could probably help too
     
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  14. Djradnad

    Djradnad Well-Known Member

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    Yes There has been a lot of fluctuation between how many coins you get from event to event. As much as I like the weeks of overflowing coins, I think they should keep it pretty consistent.
     
    Nicolas likes this.
  15. Nicolas

    Nicolas Well-Known Member

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  16. Ash KOT

    Ash KOT MVP

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    I don't want to take anything away from you, but it was easier back then.
    You can no longer reach NML with a MK5 boat with rare gear.

    So you think that I am stuck at 2300 infamy because my skill isnt good enough to get any further?
    I have had custom matches with NML players and come out on top, and in the events I have outdamaged NML players using similar or better gear.
    So I don't believe my skill is what is holding me back.

    I think that there are thousands of players at my infamy which have both the skill and the gear to be higher infamy, but are all holding each other back as we are getting put in the same matches.

    If you care to experiment, start a new mini account and see how hard it is to break 2500 infamy.
     
  17. CaffeinatedChris

    CaffeinatedChris MVP

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    I don't think the issue is whether or not the playing field is even; to extend the metaphor, it's what field you're on.

    The ship Mk/gear level commonly seen at a given infamy level keeps rising, which creates a "compressing" effect thanks to the 50:50 winrate trend (which isn't an external force but rather a result.) Previously, you could bring high-level Rares and average skill, and reach high 3000's or even NML. Now if you bring high-level Rares you had better bring incredible skill - skill which previously would have carried you to the top 10 ranks of the game as @Nicholas here has attained.

    Skill is a factor, but so is gear; and while the former requires time, the latter has become a bit of an impasse for newer players (or those with absolutely horrible luck finding duplicate items!)
     
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  18. Djradnad

    Djradnad Well-Known Member

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    Need to have 3 NM leagues it is time.
     
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  19. Cpt Obvious

    Cpt Obvious Well-Known Member

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    If this is true, how are the same players climbing to the top of nightmare season after season? Most of them (except the big whales) have the same level of equipment as rest of the players in nightmare.

    If winning / losing was mostly random then we would see different players climbing to the top every season, but we don't.
    We even see players with mediocre equipment managing to climb up there repeatedly. We all know jumppanen, but you also have people like zero cool in my guild, who manages 5k infamy with 2x T4 shields on his enfo.

    Some of the players on top have great items, some have great skill, some have both - and somehow they pull it off repeatedly.

    The players you speak about have found their set point at 2000 or at 4000. I refuse to believe they wouldn’t return to this infamy given enough battles - as this is the whole point of the infamy system (and other player ranking systems like ELO, glicko-2, trueskill.)
     
  20. CaffeinatedChris

    CaffeinatedChris MVP

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    Some players may have a different ratio of "skill vs gear" but there is still a "floor" of each that is essentially required to maintain a given infamy level.

    A player with Epic gear, but no technical or strategic skill, will miss most of their shots and get nibbled to death by weaker enemy ships.

    The most highly-skilled player with Uncommon items can still get killed by shot from a moderately-skilled player who pulled a lucky Epic item from a crate.

    The main issue that I'm seeing is that the "skill floor" hasn't changed - you still need to git gud or get rekt in order to proceed - but the "gear floor" has raised.
     

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