With this update, the devs have showcased an astounding lack of understanding of their own game

Think it’s great an MVP thinks it should be nerfed. Too much of a good thing is not always good.

 

I'm not claiming that battle bay is or needs to be realistic, but we're talking about boats... have you ever seen a boat turn as fast as a enforcer does.... it's water it meant to be sluggish

 

I wouldn't read too much into it ...

It's a title to show they have the free time to help moderate the forum (selectively based on whether they share the opinion of the poster or not, e.g., praising a rant that calls devs "obscenely incompetent" and "woefully ignorant" is ok when they share the same banana boat priorities .. See what happens if you post a nerf bananas thread and use that type of language).

 

I suggest you leave it alone. There is a difference between abuse and criticism, and no one should be above criticism. I will agree that the OP’s criticism of the Devs is harsh, perhaps even unfair, he certainly hasn’t minced his words. However, at the same time, what were they thinking?

I don’t doubt that the Devs care about balance, and understand their game, but that care and understanding wasn’t ‘at all’ evident in their recent actions. Their actions were poorly conceived, with reckless disregard for the consequences (and not for the first time).

The criticism is harsh, but they kind of earned it this time, don’t you think?

 

lets wait for a week and see what they are coming up with.

 

Lol, They did make a change.... shooters defenders and speeders have the same agility and turret rotation now.....

 

No like fixed Stats. Why would you choose less agility when your opponent using more agility. Imagine your slower version vs your current version who will win?

 

I would like to address these two paragraphs, because I feel a lot of your argument hinges on this idea, which is entirely wrong.

I have never been able to do what you are discribing in my Speeder. I’m a max speed mk6, with OB and Nitro, and I don’t have the speed or agility to permanently avoid a Defender’s turret, and certainly not a Shooter’s.

A while ago I made a video of what actually happens when I try to circle a Shooter. It’s an old video, but the principle is still exactly the same. The turret quickly catches up with me and I get hit (which is often a big EC hit that wrecks me).



I have more recent videos, where I actually do well, and win against the odds, but in every single one, I get hit while trying to circle.

It might be more achievable using Rudder or Double Nitro, but those builds come at a price.

This is the issue. You’re painting poor Defenders and Shooters as being helpless, but they never were. I absolutely dread being left in a 1v1 against a Defender. All he needs to do is land one Flare and I’m running for my life, while I’m barely able to put a dent in him.

Another thing Shooters and Defenders can do to not be ‘helpless’ to Speeders, is stay with their friggin team. I can’t charge into a group of 2-3 Shooters, and try to circle one, I’d be dead in seconds. In fact sometimes I can’t even get into range at all. I’ve had a few 0 0 0 games like that, where every time I tried to attack, I was forced back by a hail of Sniper crits.

Shooters aren’t the most popular ship in Nightmare because they’re ‘helpless’, don’t make me laugh. More popular than all the other ships combined.

In the 1v1 event, I even struggled against mk5 Shooters. I had a game against a guy running all ECs and Blasts, and all I could do was run away and try to force a draw. I had another game where a peeked over a wave to try to find the other guy, and a Railgun did nearly all my hp in one shot.

The game was never unfair on Shooters before. Maybe if you find yourself faceing off against Grey Storm it might warp your perspective, but pound for pound, Shooters made mincemeat out of Speeders.

So no, I don’t agree that this Turret Agility buff has been a step towards ‘balance’, it’s a step towards Shooters and Defenders being able to wander off on their own, and still obliterate any ship that challenges them.

 

@xArrogance

Since the post you posted and adding on OP quote is very long, i shall not quote but address your points here.

1. Your stance that reducing the enormous gap between movement of different ship types is in the form of a balancing.
I would beg to differ on this. Each boats has their unique key-point, which is a given choice for players to select what kind of boat they would like to play.
Choosing any boats with their key features is a form of sacrifice towards other kind of attributes.
If the intended point was to balance everything out, while compromising the advantage of other boats, why not standardize to ONE SINGLE type of boat?
That would be extreme and ridiculous, no?
If you played any MMORPG (E.G Ragnarok) or other types of MOBA (Dota), each character has a different type of Pro's and Con's and game role, and compromising any of their core features is akin to destroying that character.

2. Slow targer & Less agile targets.
There is always a poison and antidote to nearly everything. Assume double mortar, frost launcher speeder.
With frost nerf already in place, do you still wanna wreck any other interesting combos? You can argue it was already broken in the first place, but are you going to kick an injured man when he is down?

3. Slow -moving projectile Still easy to hit a shooter , defender & fixer
Why should anyone like a handicap towards whatever slow-moving projectile weapon that they have earnestly built up?
This is basically nerfing majority of weapons, unless you can share with me what weapon has been buffed in accordance to the maxing out of agility?

4. Rarely seen carronade since defense perks are out
Well, does this means sooner or later carronade will be removed as a weapon since it is useless?
Maxing out Agi is a direct nerf to the carronade and rendering the add on effects to being useless.
Why else do you think anyone will use a carronade if not for the effects?

5. Harder to hit at max range with sniper isn't a bad thing
So making redundancy of the core functions of any item isnt a bad thing?

6. Agreeing to the fact that there should be standard uniqueness of positioning, orientation to be enjoyed by all boats
If standardization is your aim/rovio aim, lets shove everything to one boat, one boat level ,same item level standards, rarity and etc to promote competition of skills , i am all up for it.
This would be the right step towards e-sports that they are trying so hard to achieve.

7. Equating speeder taking down a defender with juking them as a non strategy.
So how do you imply a fixer should do when they go against any other boats? They should be shot like a fish in a barrel?
Poison & antidote anology, refer upwards.

8. Speeder having an advantage by nitro-ing out of the way.
As again , this is a ship characteristic advantage.
Do you expect in a real life scenario, a trailer truck (defender) can just automatically drift or maneuver out of any situation? Or a Motorcycle would have the maneuverability to whizz in and out of traffic?

9. Asking the Devs not to listen to the community
Sure , i agree partially with that. Taking a page by one of the poster , Don't listen to the noobs with 1500 infamy and 4 months into the game, they give bad ideas with zero credibility.
Its one thing not to listen or take suggestion from the community, but what about a poll or survey before implementation?
This is what the forums should be , people giving constructive feedback or ideas to the Devs, or seeking help from each other.
By asking Devs not to listen to the community, might as well shut off all channels of feedback, like the forum, rovio support and etc. Become a close channel.

 

Exactly. Each boat has their thing that they’re good at, and not so good at. Defenders have obscene hp, Shooters have all the guns, hardly any CD, and Speeders are fast and evasive. A player chooses a ship and then tries to play to their strengths (most players choose Shooter).

Saying that Shooters need a super fast turret to even the odds against Speeders, is like me saying that Speeders need 5 weapons to even the odds against Shooters, because in a head on battle, I’m ‘helpless’ with only two guns. It completely ignores all the other advantages that the ship has in various other situations.

 

I'm not going to pick apart your post because I just don't have the patience to - I really don't care how much of a "rant" my post may or may not have been, and you are free to have your own opinions on the update overall.

However, I will address one major point upon which you are objectively wrong, and upon which the majority of your own post relies: your perception of "balance". By the way you define balance, the game would be far better off if all five ships were exactly the same... with all the same stats... with all the same weapon slots.

Sure, the game would technically become perfectly "balanced" in this scenario, but a balanced game by definition needs to maintain their widely varying game elements that are equal in overall usefulness. Indeed, you are confusing a balanced environment with a mechanically monotonous environment. In a truly balanced environment, some ship setups will be weak or strong against other certain ship setups. That's not a result of imbalance, as your logic would put it; that's just fundamental game design.

 

This!

Sensitivity slider! I used to play various shooters on pc and at first I used maximum sensitivity. While this option, if masterred, will give you an edge depending of your oponents skill level and movement strategy, having ship sensitivity at maximum doesn't guarantee you 100% control of your movement.

In various games I have experienced that less sensitivity gives me much better control.

Secondly, there would always be the option to go with maximum sensitivity if I wanted. Come on rovio.

 

Battle Bay isn’t a First Person Shooter, it’s a game where you are controlling a vehicle. I can’t think of a single racing or driving game where you can just ram your cornering speed up to the max, and glide around like you’re glued to the track; nor can I think of a single FPS, where you can adjust things like your max running speed or jumping height.

Battle Bay already has a look sensitivity slider for you to play with. That’s a completely different animal to turret speed and agility.

 

This is exactly what I've been thinking. Most flexible would be individual sensitivity sliders for Turret and Agility. But considering their inverse relationship one slider would work great, one side Turret and the other Agility. I do not think the Devs trying to balance this themselves is good enough, it should be user preference.