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Why Would Battle Bay Devs Change The Game?

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by YerJokinArnYer, 8 Sep 2018.

  1. YerJokinArnYer

    YerJokinArnYer MVP

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    Unless you've been living on another planet, you’ll all be aware of the recent changes and the uproar that has erupted. Many players are unhappy and wondering what the Devs were thinking. This post is an attempt to speculate what may have been going on.

    When Battle Bay was launched, it was popular. It gained lots of new users, and the new user experience was great. It shone against its rivals.

    Fast forward to recent times, and (pre update) the world has changed a great deal. The new user experience in BB is not good (too few new players, too many high powered ships at low infamy). Games such as PUBG and Fortnite are immensely popular and are very difficult to compete against. Battle Bay struggles to get a look in.

    So, strategy wise - what were the Devs to do?
    • Let the game continue as it was? Or
    • Do something radical to make it more appealing to new players?

    So (I believe) the Devs thought that making the pace of the game faster would make it more appealing. They tested the new agility (and control method) with new players and it rated well. They gave us a high agility event and they received a lot of positive feedback - though people were probably feeding back on the suitability on high agility for an event, rather than suitability for it becoming ‘the new normal’.

    And so they launch v3.2, and many players are ‘up in arms’, very angry with the change. The game they love has massively changed. Devs are shocked, they are not expecting such a response.

    So what do the Devs do next?
    • They can roll back to the old rules - accepting lower new players and an inevitable slide to obscurity
    • Persist with the new rules - accepting that some old players will leave, but that the game will attract more new players and last longer than the roll back option.
    • Something in between?

    Obviously it is a big decision.

    And what can players do next?
    Ultimately our decisions are crucial.
    • We could insist on going back to the old rules - but that may be ‘winning the battle but losing the war’. Ie we get what we want, but watch the game continue to be struggle to attract new players, and suffer a slow decline in players. Continue to read threads about ‘who do we miss in the game’, or why Player Y has quit to play something else.
    • We could give the new rules a chance. Take our boats out, and see if we can adjust to these higher abilities - giving the game its best chance of capturing those new players, and having a successful longer term future.
    • We can give constructive feedback on the forum - regardless of whether we agree with the enhanced agility or not; or
    • We can give harsh criticism on the forum - telling the Devs how stupid they are
    That choice is ours. I (in my hypothesis) believe that if we want Battle Bay to be successful, then we need to give the new rules a chance, and also give Devs the time to make an informed decision as to their next steps. We need to trust the Devs.

    Some people will disagree. Those may fall into two camps
    • Players who think that Devs did need to do something radical to ensure longer term survival, but that this was the wrong option to do it
    • Players who believe that Devs could have left the game as it was, not worried about how new players could be recruited.
    So please can I ask you to consider and feedback upon:
    • Did the Devs need to do something radical to gain new players (competing against PUBG and Fortnite)
    • And if you believe that they did, then what they could have done.
    Please can I have no ‘the update is rubbish’ posts. There are plenty of other threads for that, and it would be off topic for this thread.
     
  2. ShipCrusherCz

    ShipCrusherCz Well-Known Member

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    Does it really matter?
    boosting agility is interesting idea, but they boosted it too much
    other imho possible options
    • increase speed oof all ships-that would reduce time required to spot first enemy, althought it would make defender completely useless if the agility stayed same-slight increase of agility needed
    • reduce global cooldown (and maybe even items' cooldowns) could work but it would need to be only small decrease to not further support item spamming
    • reduce RNG-that might work, I know (in games) nothing worse than slow, purely RNG based progression, getting item dupes (and also items you want), item pieces, parts and power cells can be really slow proces, although if the RNG part of the game was reduced too much, it would make in-app purchases pointless
    • advertising-I never saw an add for this game, why? it would cost money and out come is doubtful...possible but risky
    • adding new things...but what? we have events, custom games and ranked ranked mode, 5 different ships and many items, I can't think off anything devs could add...something new could attract more new players, but adding something not game breaking and also original is hard
    boosted agility seems (at least now, we'll see later) to be one of the best ideas but it was realized poorly
    and if the speed was boosted too, it would really speed up pace of the game, speeding up pace of the game by boosting agility is doubtful-it's easier to dodge shots so it might even slow down the game, controls can be really tricky if you don't know which settings you should turn on/off
     
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  3. Shadow Moon!

    Shadow Moon! Well-Known Member

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    There were other options to make it viable game for new comers.
    As in new comers are mostly mk1 and mk2. Making game faster paced at early level and keeping it as it is at higher level was also an option(I think so).
    New players were getting bored or angry because of high level players at low infamy( main reason behind new pool not advancing). This is going to happen regardless, even though they max out agility, max out speed or max every aspect of the game. Reason being even though having max agility the new players are going to be 1 shotted. This was the main reason for new players not getting attracted too much. After the first tutorial part, players were thrown into ranked matches after gaining certain infamy they used to/are facing mk5/6 players with T5E weapons.
    Making game more interesting for new comers/casual players, they needed more content.
    For example.
    1) Story line containing crew members - Make newbies play some matches against crew members giving them mk6 boats, good weapons.
    2) Boss fights.
    3) Addition of crew spotlights etc.
    4) Providing cosmetics.

    Such things attract more players and keep them interested. Lucrative league rewards are few other things. IMO changing fundamentals of ranked matches was very bad idea, I don't know how it will be good in long run but choosing action over strategy is bad decision. People get bored of action, not strategies.
     
  4. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    The problem is the devs don't understand the game like the players do. We try to give them ideas of what we want, even create polls of what the community wants changed and they do nothing about it. It seemingly goes unheard of. Instead they go on changing something that was perfectly fine with the community and make it into something people get so upset about. They lack communication. They lack getting feedback before-hand. The devs could add in-game polls. A mail asking "Would you guys like this added? This changed? This removed?". Vote: (Yes) (No). Something THAT SIMPLE.

    We have a subforum called "suggestions" and I'm sure most people think the devs don't even take a glance at it anymore (not saying they don't). Out of all the ideas shared in there over the past few months nothing has been added. That subforum is full of ideas that the players want added. Why not add what everyone wants added? That is how you keep people entertained and it's basic logic. If your players want X added, you add X. If they don't want X added, you don't add X.

    Just my 2 cents...
     
  5. Shadow Moon!

    Shadow Moon! Well-Known Member

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    With reference to what Joey said, there was a poll conducted on Facebook few days back.
    What do you want?
    New weapon.
    New ship.

    New ship won the poll. We got new weapon instead. I am not saying its a bad move or it shouldn't have been done. But what people wanted was ship and what they got was weapon.
     
  6. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    Please pin this thread. I think it's time for a civil and constructive discussion.
     
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  7. Shadow Moon!

    Shadow Moon! Well-Known Member

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    Another thing that could have been helpful for new comers was,
    To add captain selection(untill mk3/4), like unlock bhurt give you 20% damage boost etc. You play certain dungeons or complete certain tasks to unlock these crew captains which gives you added boost so you actually stand a chance against these players.
     
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  8. Help I Cant Swim

    Help I Cant Swim MVP

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  9. Help I Cant Swim

    Help I Cant Swim MVP

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    Done and agreed
     
  10. Captain Jack Sparrow ✔️

    Captain Jack Sparrow ✔️ Member

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    I want to make my statement very simple and clear!

    I can understand what devs did to attract new players but somehow they heve taken old and experienced players as granted and that's why so much negativity was all around!

    We all do love increasing agility on ships but not too much like it is now!

    It would be very sensible and great update if they increase the Agiilty in somwhere between the old Agility and new agility.:)
     
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  11. Mad_Bulls_007

    Mad_Bulls_007 Well-Known Member

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    Let me tell you guys one thing. If u think that making the game fast paced would attract more players then, u guys r heading the wrong direction.

    The reason why I say this is , at low level the MM is pretty messed up , where the new players meet players who r much higher lvl. This makes the new players mad and they quit the game. I don't know how many "MM sucks" threads have been created.

    I think it's about time to introduce new leagues as the players are increasing constantly.

    I mean, the introduction of new fast paced game would let u sustain for a certain period. But after some time , I'm pretty sure players are gonna quit anyway because of the MM.

    So, first and foremost make sure the new players get decent Match ups for them to play the game more.

    On a side note, I would like a completely new system where infamy is removed and something new a refreshed method is used for MM.

    It's time to introduce Battle Bay 2 ;)
     
  12. wtfack

    wtfack Active Member

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    :)
     
  13. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the matchmaking issue. Well said. There are 2 main issues in my opinion.

    1. There is not enough range in infamy. 0 to 4000 is not enough when there are 7 mk levels. Mk1s facing mk7s is nowhere near normal. There needs to be a spread of at least 0 to 5000 infamy (5000 being where it resets after season).

    2. Upgrading your mk level does not bring as much of an advantage as it should. Upgrading your ship's mk level will bring on harder matches if you are low infamy. This is the cause of mk7s at 1000-2000 infamy. If you are at 1000 infamy as a mk7 with max epics you have almost the same chance of winning as an enemy who is mk5 with tier 4 rares because of teammates and balancing. The game's attempt to balance all matches has actually been the cause of "overbalancing". They need to balance it in a way that indirectly forces a barrier for the different mk levels. So the natural result would be an organized level of mks thoughout the infamy leagues. An example of the overall result would be something like (but not limited to) this:

    mk1-2: 0-1000 infamy
    Naturally the higher skilled mk1/2s and/or players with higher level items would roam around 800-1000 infamy while the mk1/2s with less experience or not as high leveled items would roam around 0-400 infamy with there being a mix of these around 500-700.
    Mk3-4: 1000-2000 infamy
    Similarly, the more experienced mk3s/4s or the players with higher level items would roam from 1800-2000 while the less experienced players, players with weaker items or mk2s which just upgraded to mk3 and haven't adapted yet would be roaming around 1000-1400 with there being a mix at around 1500-1700.
    Mk5: 2000-3500 infamy
    Mk6/7: 3500-5000+ infamy
    (I'm sure you guys get the picture for the rest of the infamy ranges)


    This system, at the start would seem like how it is right now, because they can't just give every mk7 at 1000 infamy +2500 infamy. It wouldn't seem like an instant change, but the changes would be noticible with time and it would get to seeming more of a 'advance in level to advance in game' type of game
     
    Last edited: 8 Sep 2018
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  14. RealChampion

    RealChampion Member

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    The agility increase has ruined this game. It should be revisited by the developers before seasoned and serious players who fell in love with this game because of its calmness and strategy based menouvering would be forced to quit. Currently it has become just like an arcade game.
     
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  15. xArrogance

    xArrogance Well-Known Member

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    1) The agility has already been turned down once and it feels too slow for bigger ships .. So the adjustment period is rather short - if you give it a shot.

    2) Not saying that I was the only one to come up with them, or that things were changed solely because of my ideas ... but several of the easier-to-implement suggestions I've made are now part of the game.
    • Targeting options
    • Kill Notification option
    • Flight time reductions
    • Adjustments to gear score
    ... to name a few. And, I've seen several other suggestions from the forums get implemented. So, I think it's fair to say they read the forums.

    3) I agree that ship marks should mean something more .. Right now, ignoring the random crew talents awarded at random points, the HP difference between a mk6 and mk7 is basically one of Warhawk's cannon shots .. but it appears much more unfair than that.

    If the stat differences at each level were more significant, ship marks would naturally form a tighter infamy range (as opposed to 1000-6000 infamy).

    But that's another of my suggestions ;)
    https://forum.battlebay.net/threads/take-2-new-skill-tree.21726/
     
    Last edited: 9 Sep 2018
  16. JoshW

    JoshW Well-Known Member

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    Very nice post. If the goal of the update was to make the game more appealing to newcomers the developers should have stuck with the old agility system (agility decreases as ship mk increases) while slightly boosting base agility stats on the boats (bigger effect on low mk boats and smaller effect on high mk boats). Making the change this way would've given an advantage to the underdog in a low mk vs high mk scenario, while allowing the higher mk boats to have a similar game experience to the pre-update version.
    I also agree with the above posts stating that MM is the main cause for losing new players. The problem with the infamy system is that it is too easy to manipulate and any major changes would eliminate a lot of the freedom we have when building our loadouts. I really don't know how they could combat this without causing more outroar but I'm curious to see what they come up with next.
     
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  17. Ultrah

    Ultrah Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think the update was a bad one. I just believe that the Devs should listen more to existing players rather than worrying about gaining new ones.

    Like @Shadow Moon! said, we voted for a new ship, but instead we got a new weapon. We wanted improved matchmaking, but now we have a new problem regarding agility.

    New players are entering the forums just to complain now instead of contributing to Fan Art or Best of You. The fundamental issues in this game have to be resolved before the fan base can come back again and start growing.

    Restructuring matchmaking has got to be challenging, but it’s what’s most nagged about. More communication between Devs and members should be done on these topics, since I’m sure some intelligent members can help out by at least creating some new ideas.

    And I know you Devs are a small team, but don’t forget about us! :eek:
     
  18. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    Very well said. I think for most part this comes from a lack of communication. I have tons of ideas to share with the devs. I've started gaming at a young age. Around 10 years old. Was always into player vs player type games. I'm 21 now. Most of these games being pay to win but also fair for the f2p players. Games that kept the game interesting and never had a large fan base give negative feedback to their updates. I try to share the good experiences I had in a way that I personally think would suit Battle Bay not only financially but in keeping the game interesting and fresh (yes, games have to do successful financial-wise so they can fund the future updates they release). But the last time I spent about an hour writing a suggestion post, it got a very positive response from the community but I felt it was completely ignored by the devs (not sure but it FELT that way). I'm not sure if I'm the only one that feels that way but I think some awareness of acknowledgement would at least keep me sharing suggestions. Or maybe devs personally contacting people who regularly contribute in putting a lot of effort into their suggestions like me, @xArrogance , @Nicolas , and others (sorry if I missed you). I give devs a lot of shit, I'll admit. Sometimes immaturely, but overall I want the game to expand and grow into something you see in the top games worldwide because it does have that potential.
     
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  19. Catcat

    Catcat Member

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    WELL SAID.
     
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  20. Shadow Moon!

    Shadow Moon! Well-Known Member

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    You missed me:oops:
    And I am not accepting the Sorry:mad:
     
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