Why meta fire cannons are so good

First let me tell you that the fastest projectile weapons such as the cannon and sniper do the lowest damage per hit.

Secondly the strongest weapons, big Berta and big torp, are the slowest weapons.

For this we find a balance where speed and damage come closer together, and that is where the blast cannon, explosive cannon, flare live.

To add to the fact that they are not only firing fast projectiles and doing a lot of damage, these weapons have the ability to fire out to the spotting range, unlike weapons like the grenade, carronade, and aren’t blocked at close range like torps and mortars and missiles. Also the carronade and missiles can be random at their longest ranges. Another point with the grenade, Is that they can hit you point blank but it’s not as simple as a simple cannon shot.

Already prime candidates for being meta weapons, they can get a huge damage boost from fire weapons when equipped with fire perks, and fire DEALS DAMAGE and doesn’t break unlike frost.

Sure frost damage gives a larger damage boost, but it’s not much more, and again that large damage is being punished by the difficulty to hit a frozen before it’s broken, and after it being broken you can’t keep pounding it, nor can your teamates. The only thing to help guarantee the one clean hit is the fact that they are immobilized which still only makes it about as easy as a shot from a blast or explosive cannon.

There are also not so large damage weapons that get the frost bonus, but these weapons are already limited on ranges, and in the case of 1slot mortars, they do little damage unless you get find that small opportunity to get a frosted bullseye.

Speaking of small opportunities though, these fire cannons get a chance to do double damage! That’s right a crit! If we are saying that leaving it up to chance versus leaving it up to chance (or is this skill) that we get a bullseye only to do mediocre damage, it starts to feel like a no brainer..

Well I’ve knocked cannons and sniper for being a little to weak; 1 slot mortars, big Berta and big torp for being unreliable; carronade for range; grenade and missiles for a mixture of reasons just start to fall shy.

I haven’t mentioned firebomb or napalm! obviously a help to the meta fire cannons, these are more reliable to land than the mortars due to its lower flight path, and you don’t actuallt care so much about a high damage bullseye because you just need to light them on fire for the cannons, but go figure, even though you don’t need the damage, it is there because these are 2 slot weapons, and already more accurate than the mortars! Napalm doesn’t have much range though, but it makes up for it in crowd control and way more damage. Some could argue however that this isn’t so bad because fire is dot and takes a long time for the damage to be done, but if you are hiding from the cannons all you are doing is dying, and hiding means that they have map control. (Basically these are something to fear). Last note here is that firebomb has some training issues with shields, wheras flare gets healing reduction, so flare is the preferred fire weapon for many, as well as it being 1 a lot it fits in anywhere givein guaranteed long duration. Another thing about these and mortars is that they are all basically only used to counter eachother, but when it comes to finishing off someone for the kill, sitting back behind cover doesn’t compare to a point damage style burst shot.

So let me break it down from my opinion at this point:

5 good weapons, flare, blast, EC, firebomb, napalm.

5 poor weapons, carronade and 4 mortars

5 fair weapons, grenade, missile, sniper, cannon, big torp (mainly with wildfire). These can work with the fire cannons meta well, or in the case of missile, has fair range, speed and damage. Fair weapons may be a little better than blast an EC without the fire combo.

4 weapons to left to describe: railgun, mine swift torp and triple torp.

Railgun has range, speed and power, but it’s trajectory is not favored by waves and it’s cooldown is atrocious, and will do much lower damage at close range ( sounds like it could do well combined with a close range like carronade and grenade) but otherwise not as unhindered as the metas. It’s shieldbreaking is superb though and should be used for this.

Mine, massive damage, but relying solely on the unfriend to drive into it even moreso than the napalm and has semi-poor range like the grenade. Definitely not at spotting range.

Tri torp and swift torp, due to the fact that it is much harder to hit frost than fire, you aren’t going to get the full package here, but torps are still more bang for your buck than mortars, the swift is great for use against tesla shields, but if you aren’t breaking shields you aren’t helping your meta setup land shots, and close range is of course blocked. The ability to go long distances is always hurt in times when spotting range comes into affect and they see you and hit you with a cannon first anyways, this is another reason that railgun and sniper don’t quite have the meta balance. Tri torp is a 2 slot and for that it falls short compared to the other good 2slots.

I would say that the last 4 weapons mentioned are fair as well, but situationally can excell to the “good” status.

flare, blast, and explosive cannon are the best, but explosive cannon doesn’t have much benefit over the blast. Tesla shield is made to counter these, but the only people using tesla shield are using these as well, so their only counters are themselves. #metaOPnerf

One last ranking system.
1slot
Flare
Blast
Sniper
Grenade
Mine
Swift
Cannon
Carronade
Ballpark/long range
Standard

2slot
Explosive cannon
Railgun
Big torp/ missile
Firebomb
Napalm
Tri torp
Big Berta

Without having used missiles or mortars personally, I can’t rank them perfectly.

I’m gonna leave you with a mind blower, if frost bonus and fire bonus switched places (where the breakable/non damaging frost was giving bonus damage to cannons) the game would be balanced. Because it would be;

Reliable weapon hiting unreliable frost
Unreliable weapons hitting reliable fire, without the previous screaming about being immobilized while you take that chuck of damage.

Edit: two things I failed to mention:

1. Tri torp is usually going to hit only one of its 3 torps unless they are up against a wall, and 1/3rd damage is not something we want.

2. Cannon and carronade: these are ranked low because in a 5minute game taking the time to shoot someone with a cannon for half the damage than a blast is a waste time to even fire such little damage, but if it is equipped on a defender, where otherwise you would just be sitting there with weapons on cooldown, it is worth taking the time to do that little damage (or a lot with carronade), but I still would favor cannon to the point of it being equal to a sniper since it can outrange blast cannon by just enough at the spotting range, and well, it’s a cannon and fire cannons are the meta.

 

major thumbs up from me (btw im using that RailNade loadout)

 

This is pin worthy, good job mate

 

The only way I can think that beats meta is if you somehow had a team of all off meta weapons, and a defender pushes with carronade, everyone murders him, but he bought the team enough time as they followed him in so they can fire their frost shots and torps and other every other off meta weapon that seems to only be accurate only once your gotten in close enough. And doing this quickly and having the whole team commit to it right away so as not to let the fire take hold!

But all it takes is someone on the meta team to call “attack” on your fixer, and for their fixer to escape the clutches of your defender, and it’s gg you all just ran to your deaths

 

Grenades get real nasty for a one slot weapons, don't underestimate them, you can get them to fire crit 88% with 4 epic perks or three and a legendary event perk.

A shooter with a firebomb, wildfire big torp, fire perked ex cannon, fire perked blast, fire crit perked grenade would be a solid well rounded setup with major damage potential.

 

Not a bad set-up but missing a one-shot shield popper.

 

It's high frost needs a comeback. It will provide more variety, but then again shooters will start crying again.

 

I either use ex and blast or flare and blast on my speeder. My ex cannon achievement is 1/4 of the way through.... woohoo...

Unfortunately I cannot use CTF to farm damage anymore because time was heavily shortened... bring back 5 min pls...

 

Pixel guns

 

no .

 

Good write up!
My setup is the last 4 items you've mentioned. Railgun, Tri Torp, Swift Torp, Mine with the added sniper cannon. Yes the Big Torp is too slow and the sniper does low dmg, but with a high Crit % on the sniper cannon you'll get the Crit very often! The Tri Torps combination with the swift works a treat vs them yellow boats that run their "Double Bubble" setup.
They can't hide from Torps and you'll be able to hit them from across the map even if they're out of range. Personally I don't like the mortars because of their slow speed and poor range. So high impact weapons works for me on a Shooter. The Flare gun and EC or BC combo works well again of you're a speeder. But that takes more skill. The mine is a must in any setup if you can, purely because you can trap the enemy and then take advantage of the damage it gives when they do run into it, most of the time you'll find the silly Defender run into the mine and then cause splash dmg to his weaker team mates around him and that'll give you the chance to take them out and the defender last.
All good enjoy

 

I really luke your idea about switching fire n frost bonus.
Torp with burn perks...stable fire, hard to aim torp.(balanced)
Cannons with Frost... Frost breaks after one or two shots not giving whole team advantage for 20 sec or more.
@TheAntiSnipe @Help I Cant Swim what do you think.

 

I

want it as an event, but frost damage turned down as well, right now it’s higher to make up for it being unreliable, but that just makes it that much more frustrating to get hit (last meta)

 

I would say that the main reason fire is meta, (besides from crazy damage, and heal reduction which is the benefit of a combo), is because it requires no teamwork to combo it. Frost needs your teammates to not shoot (will never happen). I have played 1v1 games against frost, I am using a grenade blast, but there is no hope for me to win. I get stunned and frosted then i iget a big berta that does 4000 damage. If everyone worked together every time, frost would be the main. There is no hope of that without 2v2s or bigger fleets. Also Shooters are the main ship out there, and of course the only combo they can run is fire (unless you count cannon frost). Finally there are no other combos.




Finally finally, fire is stupid and annoying. Frost is more respectable.

 

I think devs should consider this. Its killing two birss with one stone.
1. Balancing Fire Meta- fire still be great just instead of buffing blast and Ex they Buff Swift and Big Torp.
2. Frost Comeback- frost buffing cannons, all frost complains will go and cannon user just need damage buff slower enemy is a luxury. Of devs can keep little ice on ships after 1 hit with 20-30 speed reduction for a period of time that could make frost as good as fire.