DevReply Why is the sniper cannon balanced?!?

The high popularity of sniper is due to lack of option for long range point damage weapon. If sniper is truly OP and superior than all other weapon, we would see everyone from the global top (or I should say every whale) using at least one sniper because these are the players who can build up almost any weapon they want in a short time, and they will surely do it if sniper clearly gives them an advantage. If sniper is more superior than blast in almost everything, why don’t top enforcers (and the majority of enforcers) run sniper?

 

As I’m writing this post, there are only 10 snipers (10 snipers, not 10 sniper users, as some of them run double snipers) found in the global top 50. I only count those snipers that are equipped on the main ship the players selected. The majority is running flare+blast combo. If anything is close to being OP now, it’s the fire+cannon combo. Sniper is strong but not close to being OP. Alright alright fire+cannon is a combo whereas sniper is only one weapon, I get it, but as I said before, you don’t bring only one gun into battles, it’s all about combo.

And I know the global top 50 don’t represent all of battle bay. But it’s fair to say that, if sniper is more superior than blast cannon in overall as some of you claimed, we would see more top players using sniper instead of blast cannon.

 

You can't say that with 48% more damage for burning target and that you have 80% chance that your target is o fire , because you are comparing a combo vs a sniper cannon , you can only say that that Bc has 4 epic perks and a chance of (5-10)% that the target is on fire so it will has 90% chance to deal 1362 and 10 chance to deal 2016 (as i know that you multipled the total damage of blast cannon by 0.48 ,iam pretty sure it will be multipled by the base damage,so it will be away less than 2016 ) and now 1362×0.9 +2016×0.1 = 1427 not too much if we mention that we are just comparing damage and not saying that sniper cannon has 2x range and speed ,so that Blast cannon deals 15% more damage than sniper cannon with 1/2 speed and 1/2 range ,which one is better?


But we can't say that if Blast cannon was equiped with 4 damage for burning target perks while counting your chance if your target is burning ,and especially we can't say that i will burn my target with flare gun (combo vs 1 item )

All what we can say for Blast cannon is (if it has 4 epic damage perks )

I don't have any BC cannon so i need someone to give me a screenshot of lvl 50 epic blast cannon with 4 epic damage perks and then no need to any calculation just calculate how much damage it deal more than sniper cannon average damage (for blast cannon its normal d!age will be its average + a little bit more for 1% crit chance)

(Like i have seen here i guess that sniper cannon deal 80% of blast cannon damage )
and that 80% is too much for 2x range and 2x speed , it should 50% that it actually what it is without crit chance ,but then that crit chance perks and crit damage and crit damge talents and crit chance talent will be replaced with ( damage and even maybe range and speed , and CD) perks& talent ,so it still will deal more than 1/2 of blast cannon damage with 2x range and 2x speed

So is it still!! Balanced?

 

@Bradley Thorinsson
Now i know why @TheAntiSnipe made this

 

Sweet RNGesus! Hating sniper is almost a religion
#NerfSniperHatersTheyAreOP

 

So then.... we've given up on math, right? Facts too?

I keep posting as hard information as I can provide but it always comes back to this gut feel in people who think sniper is too strong. I've posted compelling data suggesting Rovio is right and sniper isn't out performing. I've posted math in long form about the actual damage amounts. We know from the item snapshots that top players don't lean on it. We know that these awful crits people are worrying about is what a blast cannon does to every single burning target. We know the maximum crit rate means it's doing those crits 43% of the time. The other 57% the hits are fairly anemic.

I think the only thing reflected by Sniper's popularity is it's ease of use which we all agree on. But the raw damage hurdles that ease of use is trying to overcome are extreme.

Can any pro-nerf person post anything resembling a fact to support their argument? I'm still waiting for weapon achievement data. ANYONE who mounted a sniper and some other cannon since the update in a fairly regular fashion would be able to give us this data but.... nada.

The only rounds sniper wins are discussion board arguments.

 

I would agree that it should only be 50% Damage of Blast Canon if it Crit 100% of the time. But it doesn’t and anyone who says otherwise is lying because the real percentage stats exist for everyone to know.

At the absolute MAX Crit Chance with all the End Game trainings Perks, the Crit Chance is 45%. Not even I have 45%. With 45% Crit Chance that Sniper will Crit Less than Half the time for 80% Damage of a Blast Canon (NOT 100% of the time). For this very reason I Crit 1/3 times. Compare that too 3 Blast Damage Shots then you will see that Sniper actually deals about 50% Damage of a Blast Canon.

 

You can stay in your little bubble and continue to compare on paper what a single sniper can do better than a single blast cannon, while other players are working on their flare+blast combo and deal consistent and high burst damage that a sniper (or even double sniper) user can only dream of in actual battles.

I hearby announce that sniper haters win this 18-page debate because their stubbornness and “unique” logical thinking are OP af lmao

 

They don’t post “proof”. They post speculated and imaginary percentages based on what they “think”. And the “refut” actual data we provide with “no that’s just cherry picked false data” yet they can’t disprove our posted data/screenshots with their own. That’s why I stopped posting on here for a couple days. These guys really just enjoy sheit posting.

 

I can't hardly believe I'm reading this. The blast cannon outperforms the sniper with NO PERKS.

Now... as to the burning bit, even if I was to go down your path that seems unfair. OTHER people use burn weapons... LOTS of other people. If I never flared a thing I'd still have something like a 30% hit rate on burning targets just because so many targets are burning. But I don't use that nor would anyone who was min/maxing. I use a flare because it's a nasty weapon all by itself and it adds tremendously to the overall strike power. You can't construct artificial scenarios and then use them to debate the real world.

And we always get down to the most basic of facts. I've posted weapon data demonstrating that in my hands the sniper did not outperform. Anyone else on this thread who uses a sniper and some other cannon could do the same. Nobody has.

 

I meant that sniper cannon deal 80% of blast cannon damage with its 45% crit chance not with 100% crit chance , so if your sniper cannon does a critical shot ever 3 shots you can't say that it deal less than 80% maybe it deal 70% (still more than what it should) so that the sniper cannon isn't OP , because if you don't have lvl 50 epic sniper cannon with 4 epic perks you can't compare it to lvl 50 epic blast cannon witn 4 epic perks.

 

*sigh* I just did the math. I did it with fully maxed out gear. A level 50 sniper cannon with all epic perks optimized in the 1/3 ratio still can't even begin to hold a candle to a blast cannon... period. It can't even hold it's own with a completely unperked blast cannon. People use it because it's easy not because it's powerful. This neatly explains why you see sniper over-represented at the low infamy ranges and much less used at the higher end. At the low end you see the casual players or those still developing their skills. So the sniper cannon is a perfect choice for them. At the upper end you see people who already know how to drive and aim. They aren't interested in losing the damage potential for some convenience.

I loved my sniper cannon early on. If I went back to my shooter I'm not certain the sniper would even hold a slot any more despite all those gun tubes. I suspect I'd be looking for something with more punch -- just as most other high-end players seem to say. For me at least, the gun which seems to hold the cherished spot in my arsenal is the much-maligned standard cannon and that'll probably go by the wayside eventually as other options open up to me.

 

Here's a comparison of BC and SC:

SC has long range, blast does not.
SC has VERY fast projectile. BC does not.
BC has more damage than sniper, even with bhurt level 12 and stuff.
SC has high crit chance
They both have the same reload.
SC:3 BC:1

SC seems to be better than blast

 

I completely agree with a minor addendum...

SC seems to be better than blast for low-skill players.

The range and speed items are only really problems for those still learning.

Also, in your armchair analysis you sort of glossed over the damage differential which is... yanno... massive.

Common Standard cannon has fast reload time.
Common Standard cannon can shoot over waves.
Legendary railgun does more damage
Common Standard Cannon is readily obtainable.

Seems common standard cannon wins over legendary railgun 3 out of 4.

 

Again with the excuses. Even if I had a lvl 50 with Max Crit it still only will hit (ON AVERAGE) for Crit on every 1/3 Shot!

(HEY BUDDY STOP MISUNDERSTANDING WHATS SAID TO YOU)

So the damage of an equally Maxed Blast and equally Maxed Sniper, after each shot 3 Shots the Sniper only will Deal on average about 50% of the total damage a Blast Canon did.

This is not taking into account for a players accuracy cause accuracy varies player to player and situation/experience. (I really look forward to how you can possibly misenterpret this comment).

 

I can confirm that +90% of sniper users use it for its crit chance ,
I have seen top players using it ,even speeder, and most of times shooters use it
,Well iam at 3.4k infamy and i see a lot and a lot of players use it , so even those players who have mastered their aim still use it because skill wont give blast cannon more range , and if it can deal 70-80% as average damage of blast cannon with 2x range and 2x speed well then it is a better choice

And 2x range and speed is more than needed so that sniper cannon deal 80% of Bc damage (SC is made because of its range and speed not because of its crit chance (that it has no reason to be existed ) )


BC loses a lot of its range and speed tp gain a lot of damage

And SC loses a lot of its damage to gain a lot of speed and range , but then there is crit chance , it is for some situations just the opposite of carronade situation's ,it is made to damage speedes and enforcers from a long range but not kill them from a long range if that sniper shot was the 2nd or 3rd shot that hitted him.

 

Sniper cannon favors noobs who don't lead their shot. Blast favors actually leading your shot for once

 

45,%, crit chance means more than 4 crit shoots from 10 shoots , so it is more than 1/3

 

If you use blast cannon bhurt skills, an UNCOMMON blast cannon with 30% boost from bhurt deals more damage than an EPIC sniper cannon.
Wow.

 

No it’s doesnt. Based on (AVERAGES) it means 4 & 1/2 shots out of 10 are Crits. So sometimes 5 sometimes 4.

But either way even if you got 5 Crits out of 10. The 10 Blast Shots did more TOTAL Damage than the 10 Sniper Shots.