DevReply Why is the sniper cannon balanced?!?

You aren't reading all what i wrote

"Sniper cannon will deal less damage but with more speed and range so it will be balanced"

 

Did you read this

 

Please read it carefully.
My problem isn't popularity of sniper.
Range is okay, it is a sniper at least.
Low cooldown is okay, because you have a %45 chance to deal its real damage.
Cheap 1 slot point is okay, it is unreliable for chance.
It seems to be different, powerful and cheap alternative for rail gun for now but i telling you real problem starts here. Rail gun as a long range weapon, losing strength in closer ranges. Please just imagine that you are a speeder/enforcer and take 2,5k damage from a rail gun at the start of game. You don't like it but you don't telling that rail gun is OP and don't create a thread on forums too. Because you know that rail gun is a long range weapon and just doing its job. Please keep imagining, match is continues tough and you made it to get very close that rail gun user with not so easy. Rail gun user turned his turret, aiming you, he fired same long range weapon to you and you just take 2,5k damage again then died. How do you feel? You will think just like that "OMG, he just using a long range weapon to take down enemies from other side of the map and he can use it in closer ranges without losing any strength. He doesn't make any sacrifice! That weapon is OP". Well, we feeling just like that. Sniper has half to half chance to deal massive damage and isn't that OP because of this like my example. But still it is very powerful weapon and chance that half to half percent around isn't enough to make it balanced. Most of speeders/enforcers using weapons that have limited range and they can't be trouble when they are far enough from you. I just want same for long range users. If you wanna be effective at long ranges then you should lose strength in closer ranges, shouldn't you? Really, is it wrong that we wanna?

 

Which is fine, I don’t have a problem with it being a long range option. But then why does it need a 45% chance to crit point blank?

’Anecdotal evidence’ from a handful of your cherry-picked games is literally worthless.

In fact, snapshots are only of very limited value, but at least they include a statistically meaningful and unbiased sample.

 

It was in the last poll thread about 50-50

 

Why would anyone run a 45 Range Weapon that only deals 533 every single shot. Tell me why anyone would run a weapon that is only capable of dealing that much damage every 12 seconds when they are faced against 10k+ Health Ships running Canons that can Deal 3x that Damage. Just please give me a scenario where that gun is worth running.

 

This I why I have stopped commenting, you obviously do not read. We said the same exac thing dude.

 

I guess I'm in Rovio's camp on this one. They say they have data supporting the fact that it isn't OP. My own data supports their data. I'm waiting for anyone else to post some weapon achievement data that shows different.

 

Except my evidence wasn't cherry picked games. Mine came directly from the weapon achievements on my shooter which has been running these guns pretty much non-stop as a group. So I can look at my weapon damage between standard cannon, ex cannon, and sniper cannon. The sniper is what I'd call "within the margin of error" but on the under-performing side. Those aren't "cherry picked games'. They are ALL my games since the update... at least the ones I ran my shooter on which is admittedly not that many.

 

Oh such a fresh idea for a poll! NICE!
Now let's look at the results, shall we?

 

Well as you compared sniper sniper to rail gun let me tell you how would you feel if you line up shot with the rail gun at a distant enemy and just got 300 dmg.Also dont make it sound as if every sniper has 45% crit chance and crits every second shot.Most snipers crit fourth or fifth shot which may get blocked by waves,stopped by tesla etc.

 

What about 'real' snipers. In some games, snipers are meant to be heavy damage, long cooldown. So what if the sniper had the cooldown of 12-14 seconds but it dealt 30-40% more damage. The sniper crit damage can also be reduced by 20-40%.

 

I played 2k battles as a low level shooter, I played 8k battles as an enforcer from mk3-5, and I played speeder mk5-6 with flare+ex cannon for another 2k battles before I stopped playing the game a month ago. With 12k battles I have played against many of the best players in the game, I have played against Banderas T5 legendary sniper, and no, I don’t think sniper is imbalance/broken/OP.

*having brain cancer stage 2*

 

Three things...

1. That comment wasn’t directed at you, it was directed at someone posting obviously cherry-picked games as evidence.

2. Your data is interesting, but a sample size of 1 person doesn’t really say much. Maybe that’s just your playstyle. Also, running Blast and Sniper together means your tree won’t be optimised, and I’m pretty sure you haven’t had a 45% crit chance for your whole career (if ever).

3. Just because the damage isn’t higher, doesn’t mean it isn’t OP. You also need to think about all the hoops that you’re forcing the other players to jump through, even when you aren’t doing damage. Players constantly need to be hiding/moving/and avoiding open areas, even when the unfriends are nowhere near... You’re also ‘often’ getting in that damage much earlier in the game, compared to other weapons, which is more valuable, because an early advantage is amplified thoughout the whole game.

 

I have to avoid open areas when crossing for “Mortars, Canons of all types and Torpedoes”. Why do we assume we only have to avoid Snipers in open areas.

 

1. That comment wasn’t directed at you, it was directed at someone posting obviously cherry-picked games as evidence.
Fair enough, but still the fact that one person's data may be cherry picked shouldn't be allowed to derail the discussion (assuming it was). That's why I wanted to circle back to my data which is pretty solid insofar as it goes.

2. Your data is interesting, but a sample size of 1 person doesn’t really say much. Maybe that’s just your playstyle. Also, running Blast and Sniper together means your tree won’t be optimised, and I’m pretty sure you haven’t had a 45% crit chance for your whole career (if ever).
Hard to disagree with anything you've said. Although after the update it wasn't blast/sniper it was ex/sniper. But there is some dirt in the data because I did do some minor weapon swapping here and there. Moreover, you're right that one person's data isn't enough. That's why I asked for more but instead what we get is endless speculation based on "feel". But you have to admit that paltry as it is, the fact that my data aligns with Rovio's (and it's the best data on this thread) is at least interesting. One last point, I've had the same sniper crit percent for the entirety of the update. I got the perkage early on from raffles (don't get me started on low level players getting premium epic gear). Again, my data isn't perfect. More would be nice.... more like the data Rovio has. Why does nobody believe them? They've been pretty straight-forward with us in my experience.

3. Just because the damage isn’t higher, doesn’t mean it isn’t OP. You also need to think about all the hoops that you’re forcing the other players to jump through, even when you aren’t doing damage. Players constantly need to be hiding/moving/and avoiding open areas, even when the unfriends are nowhere near... You’re also ‘often’ getting in that damage much earlier in the game, compared to other weapons, which is more valuable, because an early advantage is amplified thoughout the whole game.
This is an interesting point and one I think about a lot regarding my speeder. In that context the question is, "So the shooter did twice as much overall damage as I did but my damage was precision. How do those two stack up? I rule out the advantage in gun tubes because I have the advantage in speed and positioning. You could take a similar view of the sniper. We can rule out the ease of use factor because that would show up in the overall weapon damage data. That leaves.... "other factors" and there's a potentially interesting discussion around the sorts of points you've mentioned.

As an aside, I don't feel particularly menaced by snipers and I'm trying to figure out why. Yeah, they hit me. Yeah they crit sometimes and when they do it's a minimum of 1k damage. Sure, it's the sniper that's most likely to hit me when I'm scouting. I keep coming back to the fact that I could mount dual snipers on my speeder if I wanted to... or my shooter. I've considered both at length and I reject the choice in both cases. On my shooter one is all I need and I want those other slots for other uses. And frankly, the standard cannon makes a pretty credible second sniper (I know, heresy, right?). On my speeder my flare/blast combo packs out roughly 2k damage EACH time. Yes, it's harder to hit with but honestly, for good players how much of a consideration is that really? If I can't hit with my weapons don't I need to "git gud"? On the other hand it is dependable and that flare seems to eat up defenders for reasons I only dimly understand. Other weapons also have their advantages like, for instance, how a mine or big torp can turn the tide of a match in one hit (and often do). I've even dreamed of napalm on my speeder and how I could pretty much put an end to any dreams of enemy team cohesion LOL. So for me, I see all the other weapons having compelling enough advantages that I only mount one sniper on my shooter and even though I have a well developed one, none on my speeder.

 

Ok I’m taping out of this discussion. I’ll wrap up my position nice and quick.

Sniper is not OP, but I wouldn’t disagree if talents got moved around to later game.

I’m agreeing with Anti-Snipe and his data on that it isn’t OP but is OverRepresented. However I don’t think that OverRepresentation causes a weapon to be OverPowered.

I’m agreeing with Snapshot and his data showing that it is not OverPowered. It’s true, that if it was OverPowered in the (DAMAGE BRACKET) that there would be proof with screen shots and replays provided by the ones disputing it.

No Screenshots/Replays have been provided during this entire conversation (THAT I HAVE SEEN) showing any proof/data of an in-game OverBalance of Damage. The lack of physical proof of the opposing side causes me to highly believe their just over exaggerating frustrations about damage.

TLDR; Sniper is Over Represented does not equal Over Powered. I’ll believe that it’s damage is an issue when real SnapShots/Replays are provided.

 

Heh, I was thinking that too... when did open areas become a thing of safety? (unless, of course, you're 1v1'ing with a really skilled enemy big torp speeder like last night... grrrrrrrrrrrrr)

 

Yessir, I don’t understand why he thought that point made any sense at all. All the more reason to stop discussing this topic on my part.

 

I passed on it because there were other, much better points in his post. I saw no point in derailing on one, obviously less thought out, one.

I think your point about the lack of data is the most compelling. I've posted data, dirty as it is. Rovio says they have data and I find them trustworthy. I'm waiting to see any data whatsoever from the OP side. This leads me to believe that we're dealing with perception and play style here. What it means is that players are willingly choosing to do less damage for the convenience that sniper offers. ~shrug~ If they want to do that I can certainly understand but it certainly isn't my choice. I chose the route of just learning how to aim better. The other thing nobody is mentioning on this threads is that sniper shots miss... all the time. Every time I go out scouting the water around me is peppered with little pockmarks. People on this thread are making it sound like it's a seeking missile.