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This is why Sniper is Broken

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by ViscountSniffit, 4 May 2018.

  1. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think that’s a valid argument. Firstly, because the ‘slippery slope’ argument, is well known to be an invalid argument... Just because there will always be a ‘best’ weapon, doesn’t mean balance can’t be improved, and it certainly doesn’t mean we should ignore stuff that ruins the game, and prevents people from playing.

    Secondly, you’re trying to make out that people want a sniper nerf just because they are selfish/jealous, which is untrue, and is really just a thinly disguised insult, rather than a serious point or refutation.

    Out of the 19 weapons, there are 16 that I don’t use. Yet sniper is the only one I’ve consistently said needs nerfing. And it’s not because I don’t have it. In fact, sniper is one of only 3 weapons that I would currently be able to build a t4 Epic version of.

    The reason I want it nerfed is because it genuinely needs a nerf. It’s being spammed everywhere, and its range, power and versatility is ridiculous, and spoils games.
     
    Last edited: 9 May 2018
  2. Fluid Bait

    Fluid Bait Well-Known Member

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    Be this guy ^^
    Before starting a nerf thread, make sure you know all the fallacies, don't argue with a 4th grader's faulty logic, and don't go off topic.
     
  3. YerJokinArnYer

    YerJokinArnYer MVP

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    To a large degree, a person’s viewpoint on whether SC is OP is swayed by which ship they use.

    @ViscountSniffit is a speeder, and speeders generally can more easily dodge slower projectile weapons.

    Devs data shows that SC do equal or less damage than BC or EC. But I wonder if you looked at damage dealt to speeders whether those same ratios would hold true.

    Conversely double bubble enforcers probably report that SC isn’t an issue as they suffer low numbers of critical hits. SC probably is less of an issue to defenders too (it’s the heavy hitters that they can’t dodge that hurt them).

    Having said that, just because a weapon is more effective against one ship than another, that is no basis to nerf it. It is the overall effectiveness across all ships that is important to judge. If you choose to run a SC, you’ve a great weapon against speeders, but you may feel slightly compromised if no speeders are in a battle.

    Digging a little deeper, the reason there are so many SC’s in the game is because there are so many Shooters in the game. SC is not necessarily meta for all other ships.
     
  4. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    The dude has EXPERIENCE, mate.

    #preach!
     
    Nikkie! likes this.
  5. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I probably get killed just as much by EC and Blast (if not more).

    However, there is an important difference. If someone attacks me with EC/Blast, then I’m able to shoot them back. Even if they kill me, I might do enough damage that one of my teammates is easily able to finish them off.

    Another thing I can do against EC and Blast, is try to move out of range. Or if I’m low on hp, I can move to max range (where I’m harder to hit), and then hope that I’m a better shot.

    Sniper damage isn’t the same thing. It isn't part of a ‘battle’, where we trade blows and the best player wins. It’s just them tapping shoot and getting tones of free damage.

    I would also say that Sniper is pretty effective against most ships. Talking about big hitters, a big Sniper Crit is just as bad as Blast-Burn or a Torpedo. Even Defenders will get whittled down pretty quickly by them. And any ship with low health is vulnerable to them, regardless of positioning.
     
    Nikkie!, Hokuse, TheAntiSnipe and 2 others like this.
  6. Rainbow Warrior

    Rainbow Warrior Well-Known Member

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    That's not true, you are a speeder if anything is hitting you with no lead you are doing something wrong (like being stopped for no reason at all)
     
  7. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    That's true, I saw Bernstone hit a speeder today, and he flicked pretty damn hard for the hit.
     
  8. _devill

    _devill Well-Known Member

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    Snipers never prevented me from playing. My problem was the speeder nerf. Meta never was an issue. It could have been if I wanted to make it one. And it's just my opinion so you can happily disagree.

    If you want to improve balance stop asking for nerfs cos that's how the imbalance starts. What is OP to you is okay for me. We have an imbalance even here.

    And i don't know if you even considered asking for speeder buff with the same passion with which you are claiming sniper needs a nerf.

    Dude I have been following this thread for quite some time. My comment was not intended as an insult but an observation based on my point of view.

    And I must have missed the fact that what you ask is for the greater good. What was the topic of this thread again? And who had a problem with running away from snipers? Still I will wait and see if this is really a "for the benefit of community" thread.

    Well I have got to admit this is stupidity. I don't like torps and I still use 2, a leggy swift (got it recently) and an epic BT which I had from ages. Do I like them now? Naah. Not as much as my EC but they get the job done. As an F2P I use whatever I have and try to learn how to use those weapons cos I don't have the convenience of a whale. Don't keep that sniper if you are not using it just to boast about it. You can scrap that sniper you know. It's not serving you any purpose anyway.

    Okay don't scap it. Let me know when you get it to t4. I really expect to see you gain a ton of infamy with that weapon cos it's OP against one ship.

    Spammed everywhere..range...power....versatality..... spoils games. Nerf it. Good reasoning. I'm really feeling the cause behind the effort put into this post now. I guess everyone is a speeder at your infamy.

    Okay keeping everything aside if I say 'get good' will that be an invalid argument? I see a lot of shitty players on a scale of 1-10 as compared to my own skill. Guess what, sometimes even I think that 10/10 are shitty cos I'm watching from the sidelines. Makes sense?
     
    ViscountSniffit likes this.
  9. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    That’s actually kind of ridiculous, Speeders can’t just charge around at Nitro speed all the time. There are lots of reasons why I might need to slow down or stop: avoiding torps and mines, waiting in cover, peeking around corners, or just trying to climb up a big wave while OB is on CD.

    But all that aside, even when I do charge around with OB and Nitro both activated, Snipers only need to lead if I’m moving perpendicular to them. If I’m running away, or heading roughly toward them, then it really is just tap > hit.

    I can even show you videos of me being hit in the back whilst Nitroing if you like? And there is no way someone lead an unexpected Nitro burst latterly, it’s just a super fast projectile that’s easy to hit with.
     
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  10. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    As if raising the issue of a Sniper nerf doesn’t generate enough backlash here, you think I should ask for a buff to Speeders?

    I’d love a Speeder buff, the problem is, there are a handful of mk6-mk7 Speeders in the top 50, and everyone will just point to them at say “Speeders are OP”. And then no one will listen, even though life as a low ranked Speeder with mostly rare gear, is nowhere near as glamorous (and often quite a lot shorter).

    I’m not making a ‘Buff Speeder’ topic.

    As for my Sniper, I didn’t say I wasn’t going to use it. It’s just expensive to upgrade, and it’s not my primary concern right now, as I would still only have one, and I’d prefere to use it on my Enforcer, but that’s also not battleworthy either yet.
     
    Last edited: 9 May 2018
  11. Mad_Bulls_007

    Mad_Bulls_007 Well-Known Member

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    So, what are you trying to say here? Does sniper need a projectile speed Nerf?:confused:

    I thought u guys were worried about the crit damage by sniper, now u are complaining about the projectile speed. Well, I guess sniper needs a complete rework then.:rolleyes:
     
  12. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    It’s really not that complicated. Sniper has a lot of really awesome characteristics, which put ‘together’ make it OP.

    A nerf to any one of them would still be a nerf, and might make it more tolerable. I’m actually not that fussy about the specifics of ‘how’ it should be nerfed (there have been a lot of good ideas). I just want it to be a little bit harder for people to ruin my day with it (kind of like every other weapon).
     
  13. NoTtIaN

    NoTtIaN Well-Known Member

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    maybe make the sniper -10 range
     
  14. Rainbow Warrior

    Rainbow Warrior Well-Known Member

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    It happens with a lot of weapons, you get hit because you nitroed to somewhere your enemy wouldn't hit you on normal speed. Some torps caught me that way
     
  15. ElMataC

    ElMataC Member

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    This is definetly not true, obviously if you compare weapons of different levels it could 100% be possible, but that wouldn't make sense. (I'm assuming that with "torpedo" you're not referring to the swift, otherwise you're right about that).

    YerJokinArnYer made a fair and logical point about how your ship (which determines your playstyle to a certain degree) could actually be the reason that leads someone to perceive a certain weapon more annoying than others, and that's because said weapon is more suited to counter your ship/build, but that doesn't make it overpowered. Clearly it can be more powerful against YOU, but that doesn't mean it is more powerful than the other weapons in the bigger scheme.

    Eeerg I don't think this is a valid argument, I could personally bring this up against some weapons I think are too strong, except that I use 4 out of 19.
     
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  16. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    No it’s not that, it’s because the projectile travels in an almost straight line, so if you’re moving backwards or forwards along that line, it will still hit.
     
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  17. Rainbow Warrior

    Rainbow Warrior Well-Known Member

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    No waves?
     
  18. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it will be easier just to show you...

    In this game you can see it happening at about 1:10 into the video;


    In this clip you can see it happen right after I Nitro. I Nitro but the shoot still follows me and connects


    In this game (that I linked on page 3), you can see it happen at the end. Even though I’m going at full speed, I still get shot in the back.
    https://replay.battlebay.net/GBKHYKSW#NFGDXGMH
     
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  19. StrictSalmon307

    StrictSalmon307 Well-Known Member

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    Sniper isn’t meta, it’s just a little op in lower to mid levels.
     
  20. Help I Cant Swim

    Help I Cant Swim MVP

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    How is this thread still alive?

    @ViscountSniffit when you get a Tesla Shield on that Speeder you will realize that Snipers are not at all OP in higher tiers. I can eat 2 max snipers without breaking my shield.
     

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