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The P2W (and Loot Box) Reckoning

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by Jammo, 5 Dec 2017.

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  1. Crashedup

    Crashedup Well-Known Member

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    Yep
    We in forum use rng in that context too so next someone qoutes it can mean that too :)
     
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  2. Help I Cant Swim

    Help I Cant Swim MVP

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    i wonder what would happen if they removed/limited rng and allowed you to purchase any item from the shop for the current price. they could still leave in the loot boxes because then you have a chance to get the item you want cheaper (and get more items) but you would then have the option of buying exactly what you want. i could see that actually generating even more spending because people would just buy epics to get tier 5 of exactly what they want.

    that would result in a t5 epic costing at least $128 just for the items.
     
  3. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    You know what would be crazy? A global store for items. Idk about how it would work, but that would be badass.
     
  4. Help I Cant Swim

    Help I Cant Swim MVP

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    what do you mean "a global store"?
     
  5. D3X

    D3X Well-Known Member

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    He means a Trading Store or a Global Market. We've talked about it in the early days, won't happen as this would essentially end up being like stock market and drive the economy based on demand, if if someone ends up paying 10K via RNG, but no one is willing to pay 5K value in diamonds /cash , it would crash the economy. Rovio knows this.
     
  6. D3X

    D3X Well-Known Member

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    RNG applies to everything including the LOOT Boxes, the crates, the Epic chests, Item pieces, the Item combining, power cell, the epic perks, the token lotery, and Items that randomly appear in shop. The fact that Rovio has lumped all the RED, Green, Blue, Yellow pieces into separate boxes, and as well as putting all the weapons into one category increases the randomness; a.k.a lowering the chance /probability of you getting an item you require. And since you can't say you want to buy individually only RED or Blue, and the fact that those come randomly in shop too decreases the chance of user controlled "progression". Everything that Rovio has implemented impede and create more randomness at every avenue, aside from the daily calendar stuff(woohoo free 6 green power cells!), and that buying pearls gets you pearls, there's nothing else you know that isn't behind a closed curtain, and several curtains behind that. This is kompu-gatcha at it's finest. This is how $70K USD can go down into a game so deep in randomness, but when you look at the content, there's not much there.

    Compare this game to something like WOW or Diablo 3, there's so much items and weapons for character, or Clash of Clans (which this game is trying to mimic) with many levels of Townhalls by collecting 3 different currencies that are all attainable; everything is in game and achievable through time by being hardworking or by devoting time and effort , Battle Bay is not one of those games.
     
    Last edited: 12 Dec 2017
  7. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    I like that Supercell is being mentioned here.

    How is Supercell, one of the most profiting companies in the playstore/itunes store?

    Let's take Clash Royale for example. The game is RNG based aswell. But how do they profit so much? How do they keep players interested?

    1) They have reasonable prices that allow decent advantages even with buying even $5 in gems (aka pearls). But in this game you can't even advance much at all with $100.

    2) They introduce new items every 2 weeks to keep their heavy spenders excited and continuously spending. Most of the new items introduced are highly powerful and must have for the heavy spenders to want to get to T5 epic ASAP then reasonably balanced once most people have them leveled up so it's not gamebreaking. What does Rovio do? Constant nerfs and buffs, they rather progress backwards.

    3) They give more awards to the players who are more actively playing than the others. On Clash Royale you are able to WIN even the most expensive chest with HARD WORK. Rovio gives us star crates, we lose interest in going for all 5 crates every day.
     
  8. D3X

    D3X Well-Known Member

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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...vio-loses-fifth-value-first-post-ipo-results/


    This isn't good news for Rovio either, maybe this is a wakeup call to go back to their roots. To create games that are fun and less about making loads of money via the RNG lootbox bandwagon; what made their first title successful was much simpler in terms of business model, because making something successfully fun for players will make money.
     
  9. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    Btw, the devs are reading this, I saw Senor Producer reading.
     
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  10. Ash KOT

    Ash KOT MVP

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    Hit the nail on the head with this one Joey my friend, great post.
    I have made several IAPs in CR, as some are VERY reasonable deals to the point of being a no brainer.

    They do also do a lot of buffs and nerfs (balance changes) but they are very minor, so nothing is killed in the process.
    Its also quite an extensive task of plowing through statistics of decks vs win percentages and highlighting the cards which bring in the most amount of wins and looking how to reign them in.
    Similarly looking at which cards are under used and showing them some love so they become feasible again.

    Better rewards for active players is the best motive, it encourages people to play more often, and the more the players stay engaged, the better it will be for the game long term.
     
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  11. D3X

    D3X Well-Known Member

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    That's the whole point, many of us are disgruntled and no longer passionate about the game for the obvious reasons stated in this thread.

    This game is pretty much "stuck" in terms of what they can do to fix it, because there is already many players that have already "paid" for their exclusive position and content, and changing the entire business model would make things worst. However keeping this current model will continue to drive away their loyal paying customers that eventually realize that it's completely futile to continue grinding or paying modestly. Paying $100-500 is a complete sink into a game with little to no visible end-game return, worst, Rovio will continue to "balance" their game and create situations to devalue your in-game purchases.
     
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  12. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    I guess the dev team needs some help, help the community can provide, in my opinion. @Pinecone I know you guys are kinda short staffed, so I understand the effort y'all put in. If you started a voluntary test server program, I'm sure most of us would love to volunteer.
     
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  13. Ash KOT

    Ash KOT MVP

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    I already work with another international mobile gaming company, and would be more than happy to throw some ideas into "the pot" for the team to bounce off of each other.
     
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  14. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    They killed frost because they were too lazy to think of a decent and reasonable nerf. Results: They lost their biggest contributor in the game at the time. Bunta
     
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  15. D3X

    D3X Well-Known Member

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    The game shouldn't be catering to 1-2 players, I understand that he has deep pockets and there will always be these players, but by no means is this a good measurement. IF this game is designed for 2-3 elite millionaires willing to pay up to $250K a year, then there is no one to play with.

    I'm sure Battle Bay is losing 3K - 4K infamy level players daily and those are far more concerns imo.
     
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  16. Ash KOT

    Ash KOT MVP

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    Reasonable nerfs: slightly longer cooldown, slightly longer flight time of projectiles, slightly shorter frost period, any of these would have been viable.
    Frost falling off after the first shot is a killer, hence the reason we dont see it any more, definitely needs a buff in next update :)
     
  17. Ash KOT

    Ash KOT MVP

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    Catering for the majority is paramount like you say, otherwise there is the danger they "put all the eggs in one basket".
    No item should ever be nerfed so hard it is no longer feasible, tweaks just need to be tenths of a second difference to keep the balance, completely changing the mechanics of items is never a good idea.
     
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  18. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    I agree, while they shouldn't cater to just one player, it's a brief example that the poor choices Rovio is making is causing even their most interest players to go away.
     
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  19. Crashedup

    Crashedup Well-Known Member

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    Supercell massive success is because devs listen to the community.
    They value there player base opinions a lot.
    Few pointers about other good things about them
    1. Progression cr is atleast 20 times faster than this game.
    2. Only 3 steps require to progress in cr instead of n of steps here.
    3. Legendary or epic weapons are not godlike there. A careful balance is there b/w items
    4. Way to less money spent on getting to the end game.
    5. This pt is imp constant update or new features whether it's new game mode or new features to make progression easier.
    6. Constant new events.
    7. Skill cap is way to high in that game a lvl 6 ( lvl 13 is the end game) reached nightmare league there with low lvl commons and rare.
    8. Monthly balance updates.
    9. Different rarity has a whole new different item not like bb. BB has same item for every rarity so whenever an item is nerfed it remains good for epic and LEGENDARY rarity but kills it rare counterpart.
    For ex - frost blaster
    Nerf needs to be carefully planned for each rarity a simple nerf to all rarity just kills the rare counterpart which f2p use
    10. No need to retrain stuff over and over again if you want to use an item you just equip it and play it adds variety to game and one more aspect that makes gaming less boring
     
    Last edited: 12 Dec 2017
    I am a SAILOR, D3X and Joey who like this.
  20. Stonebanks

    Stonebanks Well-Known Member

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    Bunta quit?
     
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