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The P2W (and Loot Box) Reckoning

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by Jammo, 5 Dec 2017.

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  1. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    Rovio probably forgot this game exists lol. Their main focus is on Angry Birds. Most profits of Battle Bay probably goes the the developers. A long time company like Rovio actually knows how to get more people to buy at a reasonable price, which would earn them a lot more money, rather than a few people paying at a high price.
     
  2. *JAWS*

    *JAWS* Well-Known Member

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    This game is no where near angry birds player base in size. And this game has struggled globally comparative to other fighting games. Its the pricing model. Not the content. But if rovio keeps treating this like a high end steak house. Instead of mcdonalds....they will lack paying customers.
    This game needs to be priced lower. And options better explained to f2p. And p2w.

    Plus all my suggestions about being able to buy any weapon all the way to legendary you want. At least the first time. And then having a more succint duplicate element to the game. Until then. It is gambling. And like I said. Any hawaiin here cab contact attorney general and bring this to attention.
     
  3. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    I think what’s most important when it comes to regulating gambling, is that it can be very destructive. There is a line where entertainment becomes exploitation, and some people are very vulnerable.

    Computer games are already quite addictive, so adding a ‘loot box’ element, which you’re then encouraged to keep spending on... that’s definitely concerning.

    I have absolutely no doubt that there are people who are spending more than they can afford on ‘that type of game’, and for whom it has become a problem.

    I have a certain amount of ambivalence about Rovio’s part in this. On one hand, just because something is legal, doesn’t mean it is ethical. The line: “we need to make a profit” can be used to justify all kinds of reprehensible behaviour, from environmental destruction, to exploitative labour practices, to wiping out people’s pension funds (edit: and let’s not forget price gouging on life saving medication). It’s right up there with “I was just following orders”, when it comes to excuses that aren’t excusable.

    On the other hand, that’s the world we live in, and if they don’t do it, thier competition will. So it really needs be legislated for.
     
    Last edited: 7 Dec 2017
  4. D3X

    D3X Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Look at the game; the ship designs, characters, maps, colors used are aimed towards children. It's cleverly disguised as a kids game that also appeals to adults.

    Absolutely this is the case. Following orders by venture capitalists, shareholders, board directors to turn a profit on a highly risky game industry. Running a completely lean sweatshop 12 man Development team looking for 7-8 digit revenue figures. The whole design of this game is exploitation by analyzing and modelled to the most ludicrous games in the freemium space, and designing a game as such and turning up the "profit rape" a few more notches. Creating a fun and enjoyable game with proper business ethics is obviously lower on the priority list.

    Right, it's a growing concern. The gaming industry needs to combat this, because not only are game content and game quality getting lower in quality / satisfaction, it's possible to ruin people's lives.
     
    Last edited: 7 Dec 2017
  5. D3X

    D3X Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I hung in the game a lot longer, but the result is the same. We're no longer players or paying customers.

    Rovio needs to understand why we're advocating against their business ethics, we actually like the game and would be their best / loyal customers if this was remotely reasonable.
     
  6. xxxBISMARCKxxx

    xxxBISMARCKxxx Well-Known Member

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    Some similarities to gambling on the front end ($, RNG) , not sure on the back end as the rewards are completely intangible as far as I can tell.

    I've felt for some time that Rovio is too greedy with this game. The goal of most companies is to maximize profit, but the most basic economic course will tell you that profit is maximized at the equilibrium price- you don't maximize profit by charging too much for something.

    As for the people who pay thousands on this mobile game, I acknowledge their right to do so but they should be ashamed.
     
    xBonk, D3X and Help I Cant Swim like this.
  7. Kraptastic

    Kraptastic Active Member

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    I agree that Rovio is too greedy with this game. They are asking way too much for items that can be nerfed on a whim (koff, frost launcher, koff). This would have been a very different game if any paid content was cosmetic only.
     
  8. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    On a positive note, Battle Bay is the first freemium game that has fixed my main gripe: stalling of game play. That is a big deal, and makes it actually playable as a FTP user. Making ads optional is also a second positive step in the freemium model. If power cells were removed and prices reduced 50% across the board, I think the game would be vastly improved.
     
  9. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    It’s safe to assume that they know exactly what they’re doing with pricing, They’ve probably made a science out of it.

    It actually makes sense to start with a high price point (above your optimum), as some people (whales) are willing to pay whatever. You don’t want to start low and let your whales get off lightly.

    Once you’ve milked the whales for as much as you can, only then do you lower prices to the optimum, and milk everyone else.

    When (or if) that might happen with BB is anyone’s guess, but I doubt it will be any time soon.
     
  10. *JAWS*

    *JAWS* Well-Known Member

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    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/12/loot-boxes-may-not-return-to-star-wars-battlefront-ii/

    Notice in this link that Hawaii has a write in link to complain to state legislatures and attorney generals.

    What once was good for the market place is not good anymore. The market has changed. And if BB wants to continue...they must adapt. Or face massive consumer dissatisfaction. Let alone lawsuits.
    I for one prefer that BB adjust their pricing. And adjust the items selections away from the random gambling model they use now.
    BB Please study these links. And have real office discussions amongst devs how you can be an early adopter of policy changes instead of waiting for your entire player base to disappear. Or worse. Your largest market the usa...being shut down for you via law, lawyers, and punitive action.
    The ground has changed in a year. Notice the times. And adjust. For the better please.
     
  11. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    Agreed 100%.

    If the prices were reasonable I would slowly be paying $+/=30 maybe every 2 weeks, adding up to lot. Not sure how long I've played and CBF to check but say I have played 6 months (example) that's aprox 13 weeks. 6.5x+/=30 = aprox $200.

    $200 in 6 months doesn't seem a lot from 1 player. But I can say, without a doubt, more F2P players like myself, would start spending money on this game enough to make Battle Bay a bigger profit than as of now.
     
  12. Miku Da Yo 39

    Miku Da Yo 39 Well-Known Member

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    You all know the game Real Racing 3? It's a freemium racing game but everything is obtainable via playing, what IAP gives you is the ability to SPEED UP things. Yes theoretically you can unlock all the best cars and paints right off the bat and pass every level easily, but that was scaled so high that you would have to pay much more than what whales in BB has to do so. Let me add that there is NO RNG element in that game, so everyone can just play and have fun. What Rovio should have done is NOT go with RNG loot boxes on NON COSMETIC items. They should have made the Quality of Life very barebones. Add energy system so you can only play limited number of matches. Add ship damage repair requirement after every match., Etc stuff like this will allow those who are willing to pay to be nickled and dimed. Still MUCH better than RNG on non cosmetic items. Who puts RNG real $$$ gambling in a game.......
     
  13. Mr. Aussie

    Mr. Aussie Well-Known Member

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    I just don't understand how the devs can continue to ignore this.
    They don't acknowledge anything like this.
    When really it's in the best interests of all.
    They have so many problems that need fixing as so many people are pointing out. But it seems they aren't doing anything at all to fix anything.
    If they aren't careful they'll run this game into the ground.
     
    xBonk, Joey who, Shadow Moon! and 5 others like this.
  14. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    *Ahem* didnt you hear? *Whispers in ear* update. Christmas update.
     
  15. Help I Cant Swim

    Help I Cant Swim MVP

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    they really can't comment on this though. anything they say that is not carefully thought out could be used against them. they might comment eventually, but i highly doubt that they will say anything backing this thread up. they will say something along the lines of "regarding sniper cannons, we hear you"........ does this sound familiar?

    yes. yes. one million times yes.
    i've spent about $100-150 on this game, but i have completely stopped doing that and won't be putting another dime in until the model changes. i'll still play every now and then for quests and to catch up with my guild, but this game has lost its luster once you realize that there is no way to catch up or compete with the whales or even those that started earlier or the medium spenders. them nerfing things that you bought to crap or putting in guild quests for weapons that you haven't been blessed with just makes it even worse.



    this whole thread just makes me want to sink my ship. another game will come along that is equally as fun as battle bay, but that doesn't require the financial investment.
     
  16. D3X

    D3X Well-Known Member

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    Because the sad truth is, $100-150 is a penny in a bucket of money with this game, and due to the RNG, you could possibly get little to nothing added to your account.
     
    Last edited: 8 Dec 2017
  17. Shadow Moon!

    Shadow Moon! Well-Known Member

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    In my whole gaming career I never felt urge to pay for any game before even though some games were worth spending. But I felt like this game can do with some spending but then I thought what if I spent and never got the duplicates I really wanted on my speeder setup I have like 3 setup ready but still what if I got a mortar. I am not going to be a shooter just because of that, I love being a speeder.
     
  18. Mr. Aussie

    Mr. Aussie Well-Known Member

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    I doubt they'll fix the heavy "pay to win" problem in the Christmas update.
    I'm sure it'll be fun though :)
     
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  19. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

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    No wtf. I'd rather have RNG 1000x more RNG than it is now than be limited on how many battles I could play
     
  20. Miku Da Yo 39

    Miku Da Yo 39 Well-Known Member

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    Energy restores itself automatically overtime. The system is just to prevent people from non stop grinding 24/7. They can pay pearls to insta recover energy. It's just a model from many freemium games that work. Energy bar grows every level, at lv 30 u have 30 energy. So 30 matches. Not that I really care how it's implemented but if done right it's fine.
     
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