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Remove Ranked

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by Su-57, 14 Mar 2019.

  1. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    The only players who think ranked is still OK are NML. If you are OP relative to the rest of the users you are not aware of how bad it is. While it's OK for a 5k player to play a 4k player, for the rest of us a 2k player vs a 1k player is an entire different thing, but that's what we get.

    Is it a surefire way to kill the game? Let's say 90% of the matches played are casual and Event, how much of an impact would re-routing the 10% of the matches in ranked? At this point I'm at 0% ranked. It's that bad. Really.
     
    Ultrah and TheAntiSnipe like this.
  2. xArrogance

    xArrogance Well-Known Member

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    Sitting in the queue for 5-10+ minutes for one match, dealing with 3 short-lived meat-shields for teammates every match, losing 26-30 infamy for a loss vs only gaining 16-20 for most wins .. then, with all fixer buffs, you see 4-6 fixers in most matches. In this virtual god-mode the loser is determined by which team got stuck with the biggest idiot ..

    Soooo .. yeah .. ranked at 5k is a blast :rolleyes:


    I meant it's probably best to avoid dropping their season rewards ..

    Of those still willing to spend considerable money, most have found their way into the higher infamy leagues .. so assuming you want the game around in a few months, it's probably not the best strategy to mess with one of the only things that's keeping them from quitting (barely).
     
    TheAntiSnipe and Nikkie! like this.
  3. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, so even NML dislike ranked? Yet another reason to scrap it. :D

    So many players have been artificially dropped down to lower leagues with the past 6 months of changes, and the bad matchmaking not allowing them to get back up... what would really help the wait is for more players to get back into the higher leagues.
     
  4. xArrogance

    xArrogance Well-Known Member

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    They enjoy the piddly rewards .. not the matches.

    And I explained why shooters are having trouble maintaining their old infamy in my other post.. There isn't nearly the amount of deleted infamy each season as there was before the NML expansion
     
  5. TVNPryde

    TVNPryde Well-Known Member

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    But there’s also isn’t much infamy in the pool as it used to. Infamy has to flow all the way from the bottom up. There are not that many new players to pump infamy into the pool. We need a way to pump more infamy into the pool.
     
  6. Guncaptain809

    Guncaptain809 Well-Known Member

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    It’s called losing less infamy when you lose. Like only 12 infamy in a loss, and maybe top player on losing side doesn’t lose any infamy at all, if they did way better than their team.
     
  7. xArrogance

    xArrogance Well-Known Member

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    So, this used to be a huge issue .. and I even wrote a post about it:

    https://forum.battlebay.net/threads/the-issue-with-infamy.23771/#post-192697

    A month later they expanded NML.


    And, the expansion solved the issue.

    We used to lose an estimated 1,000,000 infamy each season with the 4k reset. Now, it's probably closer to 8-10,000 .. or the equivalent of 8-12 new players per season.
     
    Ultrah likes this.
  8. TVNPryde

    TVNPryde Well-Known Member

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    The expansion reduced the loss of infamy at reset but the dwindling fan base at the bottom is not providing adequate flow of infamy into the pool. Do you think there are enough new players now to pump 8-10k into the pool each season? Even so, everyone else just stationed where they’re at because the pool is restricted. When someone infamy rose others have to fall. There should be more infamy so the strong can grab it without pushing others down so much. Excess will be wipeout by the reset.
     
  9. xArrogance

    xArrogance Well-Known Member

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    I understand the sentiment of wanting it to be easier to get to the top ..

    But there's a difference between a flaw in the system and something being difficult to attain ..

    With 50/50 win rates, most players are giving back as much infamy as they're taking. The ones moving up are doing so slowly and over the course of hundreds of matches. And the amount of infamy deleted is immaterial compared to amount exchanged on a daily basis - even if they're somehow failing to attract one new player to the game per day (.. which is doubtful).

    Otherwise, I do think the top league should mean something.. if it's simply a matter of grinding out enough games, then what's the point ..? There's already guild rivalries for that..

    If 1 infamy was added per win, half of BB would be up to 5k within a few months.. so it would have to be such a tiny fraction that you'd never notice (and they might already be doing just that with the differences in infamy gained and lost between teammates).


    Anywho, the number of NML1 leaguers grows everyday already .. At this rate, it'll take a few years before it becomes a black hole problem .. Adding infamy to wins would make it a problem in a few months.

    It seems like it's best to avoid that issue for as long as possible ..
     
  10. TVNPryde

    TVNPryde Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Adding infamy only shift everyone up a bit higher and allow the strong to move up more. The players up top still win more and there are more NM1 and NM2 players for better MM. ATM, there can only be few NM1 players because if there 10x more, that means a lot of players have to be push down.

    I don’t think it’s going to be a problem in a few months because the reset will keep the weaker players at bay. You can only rise so much with your setups and skills. If it ever a problem, reduce to only top 2-3 players in a battle to get +1 infamy. Right now the restricted infamy pool is the problem because people can’t progress so many won’t play ranked.

    The past few days in ranked battles, I’ve been playing with the same set of players. Besides the obvious reason of dwindling fan base is that fact that expanding infamy range without adding more infamy.
     
  11. Nicolas

    Nicolas Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why this thread is still on..

    Let me make it clear:
    Why do you play events and casual? I believe that it's to collect rewards that you will use to level up your ships, to do the training, to upgrade your items,... all of this to be able to compete in ranked.
    Without rank, there's simply no goal. What do you want? Level up items and waste time for what? what will make you known? what will give you fans? your gear? Simply no. Anyone can spend some money first week and reach the gs that took you a year to build. They will uninstall, you will uninstall,.. This is what we call it dead game with no goal.
    Simple and clear, Battle Bay without ranked is a dead game, and the only thing that this thread can do is killing the game.
     
    TVNPryde likes this.
  12. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking about what would happen if ranked was removed, and it's not as dismal as you think.

    One of the solutions to lack of players is to have more players at a common Gear Score. If you are ok with a wait, enter ranked queue at 14k GS queue, and if you don't want to wait, drop to 10k... I see a lot of NML players in that range in casual and events.

    I can put together an 11.5k GS boat, but that's a very specific loadout and I almost never play with it because it may not be ideal for a given Event, and/or the Guild Quests. Ideal loadouts imply better rewards, which increase progression toward more items, which increase the odds that you will be ready for all types of events and quests. This is done for increased rewards... which are used to further increase progression for.. what?

    You argue progression is solely for ranked.. but is that true? The recommendation for success in ranked is typically to use your best loadout and fleet with someone to reduce teammate randomness. Ranked isn't as flexible in what you can play with, so you can't just take out a lower-class boat because you feel like trying it out. Moreover it's not uncommon for ranked matches to be less rewarding than casual/events because you are [supposed to be] going against equals so your contribution may get you 3rd place rewards on average, which is going to be worse, even with league bonus, than 1st place.

    And besides, there are plenty of games out there that cater to the collector mentality... Pokemon Go being the most obvious. There's no real progression yet it still has a massive user base. A great game is more about repeat players... and Battle Bay has that. I like ranked, but I'm done playing it with the current issues, yet I play as much as I ever did. Strange, isn't it?
     
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  13. Nicolas

    Nicolas Well-Known Member

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    Gear score? Ranked? This is not how it works.
    Regarding rewards, late news.. event rewards were significantly nerfed and ranked rewards were significantly buffed.
    Pokémon Go? I clearly don't want the game to be without a goal or progress. It's something I won't spend money on. (and fyi I never tried that game).
    It's not a valid comparison. It's like doing open bar party in a church because ppl don't attend it.
    I will tell you more: back when I started playing there was nothing but ranked. Guild rivalry was an improve. When they added events and casual, we actually ended up losing old players and gaining way less players who simply quit after few weeks. They mostly gave up around 1k infamy. After boosting league rewards and nerfing events, I only see ppl trying hard to push up. Some are still fighting. Some already gave up like you. Will you gather fans and become well-known in game? You won't if you wanna stay down.
     
  14. xArrogance

    xArrogance Well-Known Member

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    I find Guild Rivalries distasteful in every way imaginable.

    There is no true skill or competition component to it. It's easy to manipulate your guild ranking for easier matches. They're simply a measure of which guild has more unemployed or independently wealthy players that are willing to grind countless hours for menial rewards. Or, which guilds are willing to waste the most amount of money on boosts to "win."

    However, I'm not suggesting they remove rivalries from the game simply because I don't find them enjoyable. Others do. And those players generate sales for Rovio. Sales that keep the game alive.


    Others may not find ranked enjoyable. Or, rather, they have this mentality that if I can't have certain season rewards then no one should have them ... but that's a line of thought that isn't helpful (because it'll never happen) and it's counter-productive towards the goal of making the game last as long as possible.

    Players have invested a great deal of time and/or money for their place on the leaderboard. If they dilute skill it takes to reach that level or remove it completely, it would end the game much sooner.
     
    Nicolas likes this.
  15. TVNPryde

    TVNPryde Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is entitled to his/her opinions but your statements contradicted what you’ve been saying.
    - You said ranked is flaw (and it is) and you can play with whatever you want in casual. Isn’t that make casual more flaw than ranked?
    - You can progress more with other modes than ranked? Beside damages and perks in events,how? You gain virtually no skill playing those. In the long run, you get less rewards.
    - You Can’t ask players to drop GS because what is the point of you building items for? Their high GS is a testament of them building their items longer and/or spend more money.
    - MM in ranked is flawed for both teams, not just you. Refusing to play ranked made you part of the problems, not part of the solutions. Many people as you know refused to play ranked so they can keep a league status the don’t actually belong to. That’s to me pretty cheesy.
     
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  16. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    Not contradictory at all... depends what you like most about the game. I like competitiveness, and P2W, by definition, is anti-competitive. If someone is 5k Infamy and another is 2k Infamy, how do you know which is the more skilled player? That's the dilemma here.

    So my solution to a true skill-based comparison is a focus on equal gear matches. What I've always wanted to see in this game is an Event or Tournament mode which lets players choose their load out items, but everyone is constrained to the same rarity/levels. The skill is about choosing the right boat and items for the circumstances, and one's own skills, and the actual match determines the success of the combination of your choices and your execution of your plan.

    You see where I'm getting at? Ranked and Infamy are both flawed not just because of P2W, but because the matches are not balanced. Even if Infamy were not flawed, a ranked match with a 3k Infamy difference is anti-competitive, it's meaningless in trying to figure out who's Infamy to adjust. Garbage In = Garbage Out.

    When I suggested players drop GS for faster matches as a solution to avoiding a wait, it's not anti-progression because ultimately you are getting to my scenario above regarding matches of equals (in terms of Gear). But for equal matches you have more options in your item and boat choices. Instead of a battle of wallets, it becomes a battle of choices, both pre game and in-game to determine the better player(s) for that match.

    Progression comes in the form of acquiring diverse load outs to give the flexibility needed for the new competition formats. Wouldn't it be great to have a tournament where you know in advance who you are playing with and what map you are on? Then you go deep into situational strategies, and that requires broad load outs including boats and items. That offers much more progression incentive for players and ultimately benefitting Rovio more than the simplistic, and ultimately RNG Infamy system we have now, where players have to be laser-focused on a single boat and a single load out for progression.
     
    Ultrah likes this.
  17. TVNPryde

    TVNPryde Well-Known Member

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    A tournament of equal power is great but unlikely to happen because it requires extensive coding. We can’t even get the preloading screen to show friendly load outs to make the game more strategic so don’t hold your breath for that tournament.

    The reason this game is such a P2W is that resources are so hard to obtain. AM once said he paid for progresses only. With what he got, F2P players needs more than 10 years to even get close to that. Another reason is that there is no end game for this game. New players can never catch up to veteran players. A highly skill gamer started this game 6 months ago is still considered noob now if he’s not spending tens of thousands of dollars. So those at 5k saying they got there by pure skills, that’s only half of the equation.

    Again with the progress issue. You can only progress but improving your skills. Your gears are parallel with others in progression. To me, the only way (other than spending) to gain infamy is to play smarter than others. After almost 30k battles, I like to thing my aiming is as good as any. Also luck has something to do with it too. My legendary level 10 EC does 2k with fire. There are players with 2k infamy less than me dealing near 3k with their EC consistently.

    Just FYI, most of my items are not max epic. I still use a ton of rare and tier 1 legendary items. Even level 1 legendary. Playing with all original ships make it incredibly hard to climb infamy.
     
  18. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    P2W games are essentially pyramid schemes, if you are in first you get an advantage over all F2P that come later. If you are in first and spend a lot like AM, it's unlikely anyone will ever catch up because you not only have the head start, but you effectively bought your way into perpetually higher future rewards. There is no end game because that would put a limiter on revenue, so having an AM is great for Rovio... that icon that everyone wants to strive for, even if it's completely unrealistic.
     
  19. TVNPryde

    TVNPryde Well-Known Member

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    That statement is false. Many wealthy games have what they called extended end game. End game can be reach and new contents add more to it. Pay to reach it or allow the top 100 to get it through skill. That way making the game competitive. In BB, a player started at Beta launch will always be ahead of player started at global launch if they both have the same skills and spend the same amount moderately. It’s even worse if you compare a 2 years veteran to a 1 year one because of the slow progress. I am not say BB should be like that because they have their own business model. It’s just that too much greed in it.
     
  20. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    You are right... I've not played any of those games but now I recall reading about them. It's a bit better P2W model than BB is. Let players pay to get there first, let others catch up, and then release new content. As it stands now all new content seems to be geared toward P2W only, so if new players never have a hope of catching up, why bother.
     
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