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Post Update Ship and Item Popularity Snapshot [24/3/18]

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by Tirth2_, 24 Mar 2018.

  1. PastelPiku

    PastelPiku Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    27 Jan 2018
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    1,715
    Occupation:
    Security
    Location:
    America
    Truth be told, I wanna see an hp buff for every ship :p
     
  2. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    417
    @Zeus spoke on reddit:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/battlebay/comments/86akbd/patch_notes_v_29_bay_sweet_bay/dwer0wd/
    Regarding Defender...
    "Usage is quite low, but performance is extremely high. The problem here I think is mostly the playstyle that caters to very few, but the few really like it. Defender is also on our radar for improvements, but mostly to playstyle rather than itemization."

    So what I’m reading is that the ship performance is extremely high. It’s the players that suck and can’t climb the infamy ladder to get into the top 50. It’s because of their playstyle that they suck and the ship is grossly underrepresented in the top 100 and even the top 200 ranks.

    Got it @Zeus. Thanks for the developer insight.

    It’s time we switch ships.
     
  3. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    417
    Because they broke the gun and refuse to admit it. There is no reason this cannon should be a 2-point weapon now.
     
    *JAWS*, Crashedup and PastelPiku like this.
  4. Help I Cant Swim

    Help I Cant Swim MVP

    Joined:
    25 Oct 2017
    Messages:
    1,968
    I have never gone into a game and looked at the Defenders on either side and considered them underpowered. Ever. If anything I like having more Defenders on my team because they soak up damage.

    I cannot say the same about Enforcer before the latest nerfs that made Enfo the current meta. If I went into a game and saw an Mk5 Enforcer (mainly before the meta change), I knew they were the weak link. Mk5 Enforcers are still very weak. Now both Mk5 and Mk6 Speeders are pretty weak too. Give me an Mk6 Defender over an Mk6 Speeder any day.

    I agree with @Zeus. The people that play Defender well are few and far between. It is a slow boat with 3 active items. That only appeals to a limited number of people and there is only so high of a skill ceiling that you can have with such limited movement and items.

    Maybe the top 200 Defenders need a buff to help them fight up there. But where we are (3.5-4k), Defenders are not underpowered.

    I think one thing that greatly holds Defenders back is they heavily rely on their teammates. If the teammates play off of the Defender and a Fixer heals him, you will not lose. But too often nobody follows the Defender or they end up completely by themselves. I think Defenders suffer more from the lack of understanding of teamwork in this game than even Fixers. A Fixer can be somewhat independent and bounce around for healing. Defenders cannot.

    Whenever I see a Defender in my games, I immediately call out to follow them. You get into trouble when the Defender is behind the other ships.
     
  5. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    417
    So true. I start many of my games, "Together, Attack, Together", only to watch a rambo red boat run out thinking he can solo kill the whole team.

    Another gripe I have is that when we do have the team behind us, our speeder on the other side of the map finds a ship. As soon as that red name pops up the team leaves in that speeder's direction, leaving the defender floating helplessly alone just as the rest of the unfriends round the corner and sink it in 15 seconds.
     
  6. Neptune_Gaming

    Neptune_Gaming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 Oct 2017
    Messages:
    322
    amazing points.
    I have a friend who plays defender incredibly well
    When I told him a defender buff is coming, he said he was happy but he really did not need it.
    I agree that defenders on higher levels need to be buffed
     
  7. Neptune_Gaming

    Neptune_Gaming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 Oct 2017
    Messages:
    322
    Ya that is a big mistake which most people do.
    Whenever i see the opponent team speeder scouting, i always say "follow me" to make everyone be together.
    Otherwise those stupid shooters try to go yolo and land up right in the opponent base chasing the speeder.
    What do you think they Do after that?
    "negative,negative, help me!"
     
  8. Help I Cant Swim

    Help I Cant Swim MVP

    Joined:
    25 Oct 2017
    Messages:
    1,968
    Yes exactly. If we fleeted together with 5 from our guild and all followed you, we would steamroll a team of unfriends of similar strength and no fleets. Defenders rely on teamwork more than Fixers do. That is why they suffer.

    Just imagine this in terms of Overwatch. If you have a tank on your team and your team plays off of him, you are going to win more times than not. But if that tank is left alone, they are doomed. The big issue with this game rather than Overwatch is the huge lack of communication and understanding of the roles of different ships.

    @SlayerofSergeants is in my guild and plays Defender extremely well. Same with @Djradnad and @FearsomeChicken. I love fleeting with these guys. Chucknorris and Turkett (dunno how to spell) are menaces at 4k in their blue whales.


    The best buff that Defenders could receive would be a buff to teamwork. Tutorials, videos, tips to stay behind your Defender, etc. Maybe even give Defenders a passive buff like I've said before where they share their defense points with close teammates.

    I do think that something needs to be done to help out the top level Defenders. Players are very smart up there and individual gameplay dominates. Defenders just don't play individually as well as other ships.
     
  9. A55A51N

    A55A51N Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1 Jun 2017
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    675
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    Just add another blue slot point at mk7 and increase their max speed. That way they can use a 2nd big shield and replace 1 std shield with rudder/lube. Wouldn’t buff any lower levels, and solve the high end problem
     
  10. A55A51N

    A55A51N Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
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    And @SlayerofSergeants, Zeus has a point. Adding to that, it’s the hardest ship to build. It requires 5 blue ITEMS at mk6, and they need to be at least rare t5. This is why i build enforcer as my 2nd boat instead of defender. Many defenders also as Zeus stated play the boat the wrong way. Hanging back or doing a stupid charge does not do any good for the team. And often the problem is like @Help I Cant Swim said, team doesn’t follow. But that is not the fault of the boat or you.
    Edit: Could you maybe give me your player tag so we could fleet if you are at 3500-4000?
     
  11. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    417
    Disagree, Zeus is being defamatory to defender players. There were 0 defenders in the top 50. Not Oberst, not Jaws, not anybody.

    If they're playstyle is wrong, if the developers could please elucidate how they are supposed to play the ship to have a fighting chance?

    The fact is that the ship is underpowered. Whether it's defense, hitbox, agility, speed, teamwork is up for debate, but something is wrong nonetheless. It's frustrating to have a developer dismissing it as though it's the player's fault.
    Not at home to dig up gamertag, but I know I've seen you on the bay. I try to stay above 3900 infamy. Next time I see you I'll throw a friend request.
     
  12. Zachiderp

    Zachiderp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    7 May 2017
    Messages:
    419
    It is obsurd how the most used item in the game (turbo) and least used in the game (rudder and gearlube) have had no major rework.
     
    PastelPiku likes this.
  13. *JAWS*

    *JAWS* Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    13 Oct 2017
    Messages:
    650

    @Zeus

    You care to explain why we are playing defender wrong?

    This ship is dumbed down for other boats to easily hit us.

    The size of the boats hitbox is bigger than the ship.

    And attributes are lacking to be top 50, 100, anything.

    What you @Zeus and other devs have done is make a ship that works only in mk3 to mk5. It is broken against better ships. It doesn't match up to another mk6 ship or mk7 ship in the game. Meta.

    You the develpers might be really happy with status quo. But players overwhelmingly thread after thread have asked for it to be fixed and buffed.

    In a way @The Grim Repair
    Or @Miika
    Or at @Dmg don
    The great game you all have designed. Is no long yours... Or at least not yours to stress test. The players are the stress test of your design. And just like any good company would. They listen back to feedback from their customers.

    @Zeus. Re read every buff thread in a 2 month period. And see How multiple boats users are stating the obvious.

    Defender isn't where it needs to be.

    Sad to see a comment from a dev saying we players need to play better.

    Fix the blue boat. Or keep having a mass player exodus from the boat. We currently are at this moment. Next up... is when frustrated players leave a game that won't fix boat imballance. Is it worth kicking this can down the road 6 months. And losing players?
    That'd be a problem wouldnt it devs?

    Respectfully...this is a priority for most active players to have a balanced boat bay. Asap.

    Jaws
     
  14. Djradnad

    Djradnad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    800
    I wouldn’t mind a smaller hitbox
     
  15. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

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    How do you create the snapshot? Are you manually scraping player profile of each of the top players and compiling in excel or something? Any tips or lessons learned for scraping this info together?
     
  16. Tirth2_

    Tirth2_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14 Oct 2017
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    581
    Yes , that's exactly what i do! You can understand the popularity shift among top players through the data, that's it!
     
  17. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Classified top secret ;-)
    U bacc!
     
  18. Spongeboat

    Spongeboat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    7 Jun 2017
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    253
    Yes, that's exactly what defender need. I don't even play defender but I fully agree that they need smaller hitbox.
    I don't mean to brag, but I play shooter and I can take defenders down rather easily due to its large hitbox. Compared to defenders, enforcers are way harder to kill in this meta, especially the ones with double bubble.
    So yeah, smaller hitbox is definitely a good solution.
     
  19. Djradnad

    Djradnad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    11 May 2017
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    800
    I didn’t really pay attention to the whole thread before, but I think that you misunderstood what he was saying.

    He isn’t saying the users’ playstyle sucks, he is saying that the playstyle of the ship is boring. So there are only a few of us using it, but those of us that use it are dealing high damage every game...

    I agree it needs spiced up for playability, but if I could get my hands on some other weapons at t4epic, I’ll be able to at least show off some setups people haven’t mastered.

    I’m not sure why a top damage dealer every game doesn’t make it into top 50, unless no one with t5epics and skill is using it, or they are all just using the same predicable setup. Or maybe it’s because anytime the defender is last alive the unfriends just run and hide to draw or win.
     
  20. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2018
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    417
    Yeah, I understood what he was saying. I was contextualizing his words to serve my purpose. Admittedly, not a fair interpretation on my part.

    I was still bitter about explosive cannon nerf. And currently bitter about the double bubble enforcer meta basically proving the inefficacy of Defenders (at least at 4000+ infamy).

    I learned last night and saw again this morning that a T5 Epic Explosive Cannon doesn't even bring down a T5 Epic Tesla Shield. Maybe because of the fire perks not proccing on Tesla...
     

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