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On the Subject of the Sniper Cannon

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by CaffeinatedChris, 30 Nov 2017.

  1. Sifa

    Sifa Well-Known Member

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    Let's compare it like this. You have two tier 5 epic weapons: lvl 50 sniper cannon with 45 % crit chance and lvl 50 explosive cannon with all fire dmg perks. Your sniper does 800 damage normally and 2k damage for crit hit. With 45 % crit chance that equals 1340 damage per hit on average. Meanwhile your explosive cannon does 2,2k damage on burning targets every hit. That's slightly over 60 % more than the average sniper hit. And you also have a chance to hit multiple enemies at once. Now, I would say that additional 60 % damage does compensate for the longer range and faster shots.

    Say what you say but it's not very hard to hit with explosive cannon because speeders can just drive right in front of your face with tesla shield, land the shot and cruise away untouched. That of course means you have to choose the right ship for your weapons.
     
  2. BasedCarpen

    BasedCarpen Well-Known Member

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    Terrible comparison, fire perks are not equivalent to crit chance. Fire needs to be setup and you need a weapon specifically to hit them with.
     
  3. Sifa

    Sifa Well-Known Member

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    But that's what most successful speeders do, so I wouldn't call the comparison terrible. Setup means you have a flare gun (that also does pretty good damage so it doesn't really weaken your ship at all). But what if you used normal cannon damage perks and forget about the fire. Explosive cannon would still deal about 2k damage every hit which means it's still 50 % more than a sniper cannon hit.
     
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  4. BasedCarpen

    BasedCarpen Well-Known Member

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    And it's a difficult multi step process that deserves to be rewarded, you're dedicating you're entire arsenal where sniper is one slot
     
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  5. Fix-it

    Fix-it Active Member

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    I think sniper cannon is weak. Im using fixer, My sniper(ept2) has 32.5 crit chance. But When I left with 1500hp speeder. I shot him 13 times but no single crit, so we lost.

    Main problem is sniper is only storng when it crits. But its way too luck based and you are nothing when it doesnt crit. But when it crits you can deal very decent damage from wherever you are. We need to balance these.

    I think snipers normal damage should be buffed up and nerfing the crit chance would be best. This would make it in the middle area.
     
    StrictSalmon307 likes this.
  6. SlAyEr

    SlAyEr Active Member

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    Agreed
     
  7. fr4nk1yn

    fr4nk1yn Well-Known Member

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    He's my totally subjective comment: "blah blah blah nerf sniper, blah blah".

    My lvl 40 epic sniper with full training and 3 epic + rare crit perks will get my ass kicked! I might as well be shooting spit wads until it goes crit, which isn't near a much as it should be.
    Guildmates with t4 rare explosive cannons are hitting over 800 and my t4 rare blast was hitting over 600 until I swapped training to sniper.

    As always people want to nerf what they don't use or can't defend against. Sniper is not OP in anyway.
     
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  8. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    Good! It should get your ass kicked! It’s a one slot weapon that can grief people from outside thier range.

    It’s like moaning that Big Torpedo gets your ass kicked because it’s slow... That’s the whole idea! It’s slow but in return it does huge damage when it hits. Every weapon should have something about it, where it might, situationally, get your ass kicked. And every weapon does... except sniper.

    If you want to smash people in the face for massive damage, then take an exploding cannon, and put up with the short range and slow projectile.

    If you want to grief people from outside thier range, and use a laser fast projectile that never misses, then you should expect sucky damage (of course).

    But no! You want to be as powerful as BC and ExC, and also have incredible range, and fast projectile. Eat your cake, and have it too.

    It has nothing to do with people being bias against weapons they don’t use. Out of the 19 weapons, there are 17 that I don’t use. There are many that I have no intention of using (mortars), there are some I despise (mines). But there is only one that I think desperately needs a nerf. Which (by some fantastic coincidence!), is also the most overused weapon in the game.

    It’s not because I don’t like it, or wouldn’t use it (I have a t2 Epic, with rare/epic crit perks). It’s because it’s massivly unfair. Great range and accuracy + low slot profile, should have some drawback = low powered. But the crit chance just allows users to work around that completely. Eat your cake, and have it too.
     
    Last edited: 21 Jan 2018
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  9. *JAWS*

    *JAWS* Well-Known Member

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    Nothing unfair about it.

    Best suggestions I heard here for a fix that doesnt break sniper.

    I) re arrange bhurt tree and move sniper criticals further towards end of training tree. And in replace move some ex cannon closer up? This fix will help mid level ships for whom a critical hit would do greater damage.
    That option i believe would honor both sides of the argument on sniper.
    Those who think its Op. Great it wont affect u as much during mk.2 thru mk.5
    For those who think this is just complaining. Me being one of them. This wont hurt us in nitemare or affect our weapons we already maxed.

    Every other suggestion past that really does seem like too much focus on one weapon.
    As Pointed out here...nitemare league. Sniper aint OP. Its just one of many weapons players deal with. And too those who point out 45 percent critical. Only 4 to 10 shooters in the bay even have those perks to get too that rate. And even they mention it doesnt hit 45 percent rate. Ask Banderas sometime if his sniper crits 45 percent. He will say no it doesnt. Since the last sniper nerf. Criticals have gone down.

    So lets fix sniper where the mk.2 thr mk5 community gets affected by re arranging bhurt tree. And move some of the ex cannon and blast cannon tree further down. This will bring balance to the cannon users in the bay. And give needed variety.

    But lets stop with nerf stuff. I highly ask devs to not nerf any weapon from now on. And to buff underused weapons meta. Example latest carronade and tri torps and grenade buff. Good moves.
    I also suggest devs fix defective weapons. Like weapon hits not registering. Every time an ex cannon, blast cannon or grenade hit doesnt register. Is another time that user thinks to scrap weapon and go use a weapon that hits every time. Ie. More people use sniper out of frustraition. Not because its OP. But because of shot speed.

    So Developers. @The Grim Repair, @Miika @Zeus
    Please fix weapons. And consider re arranging bhurt tree for sniper balance instead of nerfs.

    Lastly. Everything that has to be said has been said for this thread. Can we please close this thread now Grim? Much appreciated.

    Jaws
     
  10. FDR's Think Tank

    FDR's Think Tank New Member

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    A solution needs to make both parties happy. Or sometimes, both parties unhappy...

    Random crits for a sniper make no sense, whatsoever, and leave gameplay feeling lopsided: either he lucksacks into huge damage that sways battle... Or sits way out and plinks away uselessly, it sounds like.

    What if crit chance was based on how long you targeted the enemy (making clustered foes the nemesis of a sniper, resetting his snipe meter... The opposite of the mortar) or it was based on consecutive hits? Or... Make his best crits specific to status affected enemies? He could build a gun for frost sniping, burn sniping, or stun sniping.... Then it's the two step process, mentioned earlier in the thread.

    Everyone will be unhappy with a solution that doesn't change the gameplay of it, I think.
     
  11. A55A51N

    A55A51N Well-Known Member

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    @*JAWS* will you please please please please shut up about shots not registering? It’s just lag, the shot actually missed. Look at your replay, it’s clear there
     
  12. *JAWS*

    *JAWS* Well-Known Member

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    Really? I am engaged in the real topic of snipers. And finding solutions. Your response is to say shut up?

    Get real.
    Even the shots not registering is not a player based issue. Its a developers server issue. How they register shots. It is a solution to the sniper issue.

    Less players will use snipers if more slower cannon shots registered. Notice the word is #Slower.
    Developers know they can speed up explosive cannon and blast cannon and grenade and it would fix it. Warnet who is in contact with devs has made them aware.

    My point for mentioning this is meta.
    Early mk2 thru mk4 boats are scrapping great weapons because of shots not registering.
    Ie. Feeding into the more players use sniper.

    Ie. More players feel early its Op.

    It has do to do with shots registering and shot speed.

    2 things the devolpers can address with fixing in update and balance.
    @The Grim Repair


    Now back to player who told me to shut up.

    Forum rules. Follow them.

    Stay on topic of sniper balance. My comments are directed to a solution. While being on the side of nitemare players where sniper is far from OP.
     
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  13. A55A51N

    A55A51N Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Shut up about shots not registering. Feel free to comment about sniper.


    It is a connection issue between you and server.
    Not really, you can’t shoot across the map with just little leading with grenade, blast or explo. People would still use sniper for long range capabilities.
    Not really.
    Well your comments are not really related either. But I will try.
     
  14. Ultrah

    Ultrah Well-Known Member

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    I hate snipe crit chance. A guildmate was able to complete a sniper quest all by himself by just running 3 snipers on his Enforcer in just 3 days. EC, BC, and normal Cannons take much longer, but it took one dude 3 days and he got it without complaints.
    A784371E-0244-4CAA-B3FB-7C8AFBD59FC7.png
     
  15. vis1234567899

    vis1234567899 Well-Known Member

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    As long as something else gets buffed I am fine lol. Maybe the carronade...:):) As a sniper range is way much more than the carronade and crits on sniper means that carronades quick reload time is compensated for but there is a huge difference in range and accuracy.
     
  16. The Grim Repair

    The Grim Repair Community Manager

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    Please be nice to each other
     
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  17. Disguised

    Disguised Well-Known Member

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    Remember to count in the power of boosts, play-time, and gear.
    Seeing that the guy's total-damage-done-towards-the-quest ends in two '0's, there is quite a chance that guy had a lot of 5x boosts. He might have also have really good gear(I personally don't know) and has played for 12 hours a day, soooo...
     
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  18. EyeOfDoom

    EyeOfDoom Well-Known Member

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    I think sniper should be that weapon that clashes with every other cannon in the bhurt tree. Just like the way carronade clashes with pretty much every good speeder talent. Crit chance and damage can stay the same if it means sacrificing all other cannons. And if you think about it, if you don't have a Tesla bolt, how do you beat mk6 shooter equiped with snipe, snipe, ex, ex, missiles?
     
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  19. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

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    How is it that nobody ever debates this? I think this is the right readjustment to sniper cannons.
     
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  20. fr4nk1yn

    fr4nk1yn Well-Known Member

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    So unless I'm missing something you say I should get my ass kicked because it's a 1 slot weapon, then say situationally the sniper won't get my ass.

    Side note: I never mentioned anything about buffing or nerfing did I? The sniper has long range and decent damage when it crits. That's all it has going for it, it's not some super weapon.
     

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