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On the Subject of the Sniper Cannon

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by CaffeinatedChris, 30 Nov 2017.

  1. vis1234567899

    vis1234567899 Well-Known Member

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    Hey make carronades range even longer please, I am finding it very hard to use without getting hit by enemy team.
     
  2. Disguised

    Disguised Well-Known Member

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    Wrong thread, but flanking is a good tactic that might help you. ;)
     
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  3. Sifa

    Sifa Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, when you're having just 2k hp you basically make yourself everyone's first target. If they nerf sniper, what next? You gonna come back and complain when people one-shot you with their ex-cannon or railgun? Get some shields on your boat and you'll notice people actually don't want to target you so much anymore.

    In my opinion sniper is already well balanced in the nightmare league gameplay, and that's the only place that should really define what items should get buffed or nerfed. If it's a problem in the lower leagues, then the answer is not to nerf the entire weapon rather than just make some balance changes so that the full potential unlocks only at the higher levels.
     
    FearsomeChicken likes this.
  4. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

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    I KEEP SAYING IT. Look at his league. He's not very high up, and weapons in his native infamy do less than even 600 damage. But sniper cannon? Jeez. Now that I've crossed the "OP" limits, it's okay, but you forget that there's mk4 speeders with 1700 hp in upper master. The devs need to spread out the talent tree for the sniper cannon, it is too powerful, mid-game.
     
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  5. ThatOnion

    ThatOnion Well-Known Member

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    At least with ex cannon you have be within a reasonable distance of the person. And it's 2 slot points.

    And railgun has no crit, a relatively low projectile speed, and no firing arc. And, again, it's 2 slot points.

    But sniper; lazer projectile, massive range, a crit that hit's for a bc+flare combo or more, without any risk to the user. And it's only 1 slot point
     
  6. Disguised

    Disguised Well-Known Member

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    Sniper is a kind of weapon that's not the easiest to dodge. I've dodged countless numbers of ex-cannon shots by dancing and going under waves as they shoot. My speeder has exactly 1700 health [and is in Master II(Master I next season) like the @TheAntiSnipe said), and I survive quite long in a battle, unless I'm stupid enough to stop right before a big torp(or mine) thinking that I'm an enfo. If I have a speeder that's carrying a sniper and chasing me, I'm practically dead meat. And like @ThatOnion said, Sniper Cannon is a 1 slot weapon compared to ex-cannon and railgun and is about 10x easier to use(I've used all three on my alt account).
     
    The Otherguy likes this.
  7. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

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    It becomes easier to dodge snipeshots as you master evasion, I don't get hit at all at range. But again, the rub is that it is again too effective at point blank.
     
  8. Sifa

    Sifa Well-Known Member

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    You are right here and that's pretty much what I said in my earlier message too. The answer is not to nerf the entire sniper because then it would become too weak in end-game. Much better if they could just adjust the talents etc and make you unlock the full potential later when you should be mk6 or higher already.
     
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  9. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

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    Thats been a point of mine all along. Let the NM players decide on what THEY want, but let's at least spread out the talent tree. The blasty and explosive cannons take so long to reach endgame levels, but the sniper cannon is pretty much all set by t4 training!
     
    The Otherguy likes this.
  10. *JAWS*

    *JAWS* Well-Known Member

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    I feel all your pain about getting hit by snipers.
    But I have to say. Adjust your tactics and adapt.
    My boat of choice is defender.
    This by far is the easiest boat to hit.

    I am well know for charging like the juggernaut from x men as a tactic on the bay.
    But with that said. I use a suggestion i learned from porthos regarding how to succesfully use defender. And i write it here for everyone who is complaining about sniper. If u use this tactic u wont have a sniper issue. How to get close enough to your unfriend target without getting hit before you can fire back? According to Porthos.... use the map to your advantage. Steer boat forward and hug walls items etc. Where the enemey ship cant see u.
    Realize according to devs. The line of sight issue is a Big deal. This is how it works. Without a scout ship. All 5 unfriends boats are blind. Ie. No radar. Even then the line of sight doesnt go thru rocks or solid items.
    Sooooo. As a defender i charge thru blind spot items over and over again and usually land my entire massive h.p. right on unfriends boats hardly ever touched before I have fired the very first shot.
    Soooo how will this help low h.p. boats like speeders and enforcers? Use the map. Use the hiding spots attack first. And jet out whenever u get hit and go to fixer boat for health or use a bandage.

    Or if enforcer. Get a tesla shield. Will save u from critical damage of sniper. I have heard many good speeder enforcers at my guild. (Rebellion #1 guild in the bay) say...if u feel your tesla shield will get broken. Hit the overboost or nitro. So at least if it gets broken. U are already speeding away.

    Notice. All of this is tactics. We all started where u are. We adapted and improved. U c an too. Best of luck in the bay.

    JAWS
     
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  11. vis1234567899

    vis1234567899 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm lets just say that as a mk4 who used to run striaght into the torps eventhough I m speeder, I dont think snipers are the biggest problem. Anyone who has fleeted with me sees that I might run towards a sniper or excannon. The things is at master leagues they dont crit that much, even snipers, not so much that u should be worried
     
  12. vis1234567899

    vis1234567899 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is as a mk4 speeder with mortars going to to a mk5 with an carronade is a very big jump. Huge changes in set up are needed. That is why I cant even get to master 1 or ace yet./
     
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  13. Disguised

    Disguised Well-Known Member

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    At my infamy, I get crit for a minimum of 900. For a 1 slot-point weapon that is usable at any range and one that is easy to hit with, that is a bit too much. Just wondering, you said that you don't think snipers are the biggest problem... then what is? o_O
    It takes time, my friend. I changed from a blast cannon+flare gun speeder to a swift torp+mine speeder.
    But your change is much bigger. Just keep playing and you will get better.
     
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  14. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    The trouble is, you can dodge and weave and use cover like a champ, but it doesn’t help because the sniper is just as powerful up close, and easier to hit with.

    All you’ve done ‘at best’ is evened the odds. If you need to work that hard just to be equal, then it proves how unequal (and unfair) the weapon is starting out.

    Of course that’s the best case. Ordinarily, getting close just earns you the popular award. So your choice is either: hang back and get sniped by someone you can’t hit. Or creep forward, and then get sniped by everyone. That would be dilemma enough if the weapon were weak like a cannon, but the damage is colossal to boot.
     
  15. *JAWS*

    *JAWS* Well-Known Member

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    Doesnt prove your point.
    I gained nitemare as a shooter mk2 thru mk5 and still used these tactics to avoid the countless mortar spammers.

    I was much more concerned about mortar this. And mortar that. Then ever sniper.

    All points shouldnt be circumstantial.
    What it happening now is evidence presented by all side is based off each individuals bias.
    And then presented as fact.
    Or another way to say. If one wants to look for a red prius. Soon u will only see red prius's everywhere. They always were there. But now u notice it.

    I challenge all here to now pay attention to how many times a flare kills you, or better yet....how about the next time a explosive cannon kills u. Next time on the bay this week. U will be killed by these unfair weapons over and over again.
    Look for my boat and I will help u with this challenge.
    • Because now u remember to look for it. Always was there.
    • Enjoy being freaked out by flares and ex cannons now ;)
     
  16. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

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    I said last time that I wouldn't debate this issue further. But this is my very last post on the matter.
    • Sniper cannons are strong in midgame, dealing lots of damage from across the map.
    • They are NOT so OP in the endgame, but due to the talent tree for Bhurt, the sniper cannon gets it's full potential(or close to it) in midgame.
    • Distributing the talents should do the trick for midgame players. And everyone seems to agree.
    • So tell me, why are we still debating WHETHER it should be nerfed? When the midgame has ships with 2000ish HP, of course it needs a midgame nerf when it can dish out 1.3k damage a crit!
    • With the guildwars update, it has become easier to reach 30%+ crit chance with three epic crit chance perks. Though this is good for end game players, the weapon has become ridiculous in the midgame because it can crit more often now.
    • It's not the issue of HOW MUCH it crits, but an issue of HOW it crits in mid-game. If your average mk4 speeder in master 2/master 1 eats one cannon shot when he has a bandage, followed by a sniper crit, he gets effectively twoshot! This is unhealthy, of course the sniper cannon needs a nerf there.
    • So, just spread out the talent tree for this weapon, and it'll all be fair! I mean, look at how late the excannon or the standard cannon OR the blast cannon gains its full power, compare that to the sniper cannon, what do you see?
    TL;DR stop debating on whether and start working on how. NM players won't be affected either way by the change I'm suggesting. I'm not suggesting a sudden drop in the weapon's capability, I'm just saying it needs some adjustment to how quickly these capabilities unlock!
     
  17. Babablacksheep

    Babablacksheep Well-Known Member

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    I think sniper is the only weapon that depends heavily on perks.Crit chance perk are just too good and if you remove good ones and add uncommon ones sniper is just another crap weapon.

    The same doesnt apply to all weapons,Where the increase in weapon damage/Range according to perk rarity is just good enough to have some significance.....
     
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  18. vis1234567899

    vis1234567899 Well-Known Member

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    Lol ur items are so good for mk4, and I have changed my setup over dozen imes causing my set ups having lessly levelled items than other people at my level.
    But we are speeders with low life and 900 crit on me doesnt matter as i will just hide out afterwards with bertha. With carronade, its a different matter.
    And also I have run straight into torps and mines thinking I wont lose much life ( suicidal I know) when really I get destroyed.
    Sniper damage at our level is too low without crit and really all these mk5 shooters with blast cannons with 700 damage are more potent.
    I really dont know what the problem is but its not weaponry as such like snipers. Maybe other items should be buffed
     
    TheAntiSnipe likes this.
  19. Disguised

    Disguised Well-Known Member

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    If I would prioritize training my crew over leveling my items(I finally started training again 2 days ago, after a 2-3 month break), I would be like captain lvl 35 [and would have shit weapons, but... lol]
    Torps are easy to evade personally, but mines are a speeder-carronade user's worst nightemare.
    Sniper at all levels(let's just forget about T5 leggy) has low damage(about the same as a standard cannon), but at my infamy, I see a T4 epic sniper every other game(slight exaggeration). Blast cannons have much shorter range, slower projectile, so obliviously they do like 700 damage(even at my level) without crits.
    Also the only items I see need a buff are the 2 frost items.
     
    vis1234567899 likes this.
  20. ViscountSniffit

    ViscountSniffit Well-Known Member

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    I wish people would stop saying that Blast and Explosive cannons are just as bad. I run those weapons, and going up against snipers feels like I’ve brought a rock to a gun fight.

    And people are like: “but the rock really hurts... just run up to the gunman, and lob the rock at his head”, as if the range or accuracy is even comparable.

    Sniper is not underpowered without the crits. The range and accuracy means you can land 2-3 times as many shots as you can with short range weapons. It’s supposed to be less powerful to make it fair, but the crit chance completely circumvents that, and ends up making it more powerful for no drawback, at all.
     

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