New Ships, the hurdles, and the solutions

So after scanning the suggestion threads, I only found two threads suggesting new boat types. For reference and due props:
https://forum.battlebay.net/threads/new-class-saboteur.14201/

https://forum.battlebay.net/threads/cloaker-ship-idea-item-with-artwork.13611/

I understand most veterans are focused on gear issues, potential new gear, the metagame balance, and the overall market place. However, if Rovio doesn't make a habit of adding new boats, this is an issue that will ONLY become less likely to be addressed with time. Perhaps many of you would be satisfied with skins. Let me SELL you on the new boat cause!
1.) Argument:The game is already too difficult for players to enter/absorb/handle. New boats would leave new players stuck dealing with overpowered vets with vehicles out of reach. Counter: Any vehicles added would be accompanied by low tier item/unlock cost adjustments, inventory boosts, and simply adding these new features to the early levels: automatically unlocking them. New players are going to learn the game as it is presented to them.
2.) Argument: I am more worried about existing weapon/support balance than adding some new irrelevant thing. Counter: Meta problems can be fixed with adjustments, but in the real world, challenges are met with new tech, not everyone agreeing to make a weapon less powerful. A new class of vehicle might be the needed change to balance an obnoxious tactic.
3.) Argument: New Boats means new weapons or item types. As it stands, it's already blasted hard getting what you need for evolution. New stuff could make it functionally impossible. Counter: My proposals will work with existing items as much as possible, and offer solutions for how to give existing items more functionality.

I will try to address any other black-pilling as it arises, but those were the main three I saw while surfing. Change can be frightening and there will always be people who argue against major changes... I can only offer reasoned debate against it.

Now to the ideas: I don't worry about numbers, I deal in concepts. Obviously Rovio has to balance the numbers, so I trust them to have a better grasp of what is fair than I might. I offer up item slot suggestions, but they can change it as they see fit.

The Submarine: Stealthy, sneaky, perfect for forming your own Wolf Pack! To avoid adding new items, the Submarine would have an interesting pattern of movement and attack. While moving, it is submerged, with a low turn radius and weapons off. The water protects it from everything but torpedos, mines, and other depth charged weapons. (I.e. Mortars might be blocked, except Big Bertha) When the Sub wants to turn quickly or attack, it merely stops for a few seconds, it will pop up from the water dramatically. support items that affect speed are enabled underwater, support that targets is enabled when surfaced. I wouldn't give the Sub too many support slots. It would get a little defense. Most of it's slots should be dedicated to shooting. The sub can contest capture while submerged, but can only capture while surfaced. It won't be invisible while submerged... You will see it's periscope, and can still target it.

The Drone Carrier: The Aerial Flagship... This ship has Unique primary slots that utilize existing items. These slots turn compatible weapons, support, healer, and blocker items into unique drones that each automatically perform unique tasks. Mortars would create Bomber Drones, who could be directed to fly out and drop payloads on enemies. They wouldn't miss often, but they would have long delivery and reload times. Support Drones would work like bombers, but with support abilities. Their flight times would be likely faster. Supply drones would be activated by some heal items, either healing the Carrier automatically, or healing allies when directed. Finally, the blocker drones would be the fighter planes... Their role would be shooting down other drones, frustrating enemy carrier strategies. Drones would be highly vulnerable to all support weapons and the Tesla shield as well, letting enforcers, speedboats, and fixers create loadouts to counter them. The Carrier itself would rely on staying out of sight and defense from allies, having few basic slots. It would be slow... And a bad choice for point capture.

The Seachopper: A high flying support heli, with weapon load out, healing slots... But limited defensive capability. If it is possible to add, this would fly above the mortars and torpedos... But be always vulnerable to direct fire weapons: rockets, cannons, railguns, and cannonades all tearing this whirlybird apart quickly... Support weapons making it very vulnerable to the killing blow. The helicopter would try to use it's manuevering to always avoid enemy attack radius, strike from behind, and heal allies in need. Functionally the opposite of the Submarine, although similar in it's love of blindsiding foes.

More to come!

 

Ship Suggestions Part 2

Ol' Broadsides: The Classic Flagship, he might still use sails, but he has picked up some tricks over the years! Broadsides would be similer to load out to the Shooter, however, he has no turrets! His frontend is heavily armored, and when he shoots, it shoots directly out port and starboard! Controlled aiming can switch between each side, but he needs to physically turn to aim his cannons. They have no radius. He can only use cannons and torpedos. Despite a vulnerable backside, he would be an excellent brawler, in the hands of a bold captain!

Decoy-Maker: This tricky ship can deploy duplicates of allied ships. Effects vary based on what support slot weapon he uses. Decoys generally are destroyed rapidly, only having a fraction of the health of the primary they are based on. They are also usually stationary, but possibly immune to burn damage. Tesla bolt- stuns who destroys it. Frost blaster- freezes who destroys it. Frost launcher- freezes foes continually in radius until destroyed. Tesla shield- has more health. Nitro- rapidly zig zags around the battle field. Overbooster- moves around in a steady circle. Frustrate foes with your phantom fleet!

Tower Rigger: This ship can deploy into an ultra-fortified stationary rig (looking like an oil rig platform, with weapons) to defend and hold a spot. Vulnerable when not deployed, but quick and able to heal allies. He gets extra view height and range from his shots when in tower mode, but loses access to healing abilities. Locking out slots in battle functional modes allows the devs to give him more slots than usual, while maintaining balance. The tower deploy speed/pack up should be a hard factor to consider when playing the Tower Rigger. It cannot build capture percent in tower mode, or does so at a slower rate.


Edit: I have more ideas for making more ships work, but I hadn't realized that "Adjusting the Sails" was actually a Subthread rulelist for Suggestions, as it wasn't the top thread. (2nd Edit: Now it is, and my question is essentially answered.) It seems ship suggestions are out? Or was that requests to nerf/alter the current ones? It's a bit vague, but until I know for certain, I will pipe down about this. Good luck!

Not going to bump this thread, since it is probably against the intention of suggestions forum:
As to making them a feature to how the new "boats" work, rather than new item abilities...
Items are generally offer a benefit, with limited or non-existent downsides. As suggested, these offer new playstyles, certainly.. but drawbacks as well the player must work around... The originals may be better, simply taking into account playstyle. I also didn't want to agitate an already growing problem with item variety. If you increase variety of use for existing items, you sooth fears without major distribution changes. As items, dive and hoverhop would work for a very short duration. Perhaps the benefit would need to be boosted, during activated use.

If Rovio does add new boats, one at a time, you can be guaranteed to see too many playing them the first week to month of release. After that, they will balance out to actual usefulness reflected in use.

I can dig the chess piece argument. Issues with the enforcer seeming indistinct will likely only be resolve around the time they make mk. 8 and give it a single green slot. Really though, I thought it was the point, for people who prefer the middle ground? This is why I felt giving existing items new uses might add a functional and fun new dimension. I obsess like that... It means I am having fun.

 

First. One point for creativity. One point for your forum name.

As it stands now, the only difference between ships is the base stats and the color and quantity of equipment slots. Your new ships could be more like abilities. If new ships were added that had special features, my concern would be that no one would play the "boring" original 5. I do think that the game could use some more ships, but would think that it should follow Rovio's base model which is a max of 8 slots, and 11 or 12 points to distribute. We certainly need other ships that can use green items!

Some examples I have been toying around with:
Combat Medic. He would have stats like 4RRR 3GG 4BBB which would give you a more firepower/less healing fixer. Would maybe have similar base hp and speed stats to Enforcer.
Supporter. 4RR 3YY 2G 3BBB He would be a more set up to attack from a far with mortars and frost launchers. The green gives him the ability to use duct tape or help heal in battle.
Finisher. 4RRRR 2Y 1G 4BB If Defender and Enforcer had a child. Think about double big shield and duct tape! Fast turret.

I really like your submarine concept and it is well thought out, including how not to make it too powerful. One thing I have taking a liking to is a submarine or "dive" aspect where torpedoes and mines would hit for 2x but mortars would be at 0.5. Similarly, you could have some sort of hover or jump feature that would allow you to fly over mines an torps (zero) but be extra hit by projectiles and mortars (1.5x maybe?). Each would extend duration as it leveled. Both would be blue or maybe yellow. Again, I think that abilities would be better suited than ship abilities.

 

I think my main opposition to adding more boats (or weapons) is that they will start to overlap, in terms of function, so it will only serve to erode the distinctiveness and usefulness of the different casts.

Personally, I think there are already one too many boats. The Enforcer doesn’t really know what it wants to be. It’s like an awkward compromise between a shooter and a speeder. Shooter and Enforcer could probably be merged into one ‘medium weight’ ship.

You don’t improve a game by tacking on loads of superfluous stuff. A great game is not one where you can’t add anything more; a great game is one where you can’t take anything away, because every part is important and serves a purpose.

Think of like a machine. You don’t improve a machine by adding on loads of pointless gearwheels and leavers, just because you can. The machine is best and most refined, when it is as simple as you can make it, and as complex as it needs to be. Less is often more, and simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

Look at a game like chess... only 6 different pieces, all with simple rules. Yet out of that simplicity developes a fantastically deep game of strategy, that has kept people occupied (studying it, and writing books about it) for hundreds of years.

 

+1
TAKE NOTES ROVIO

 

I sort of agree with this, Enforcer doesn't excel at anything except going backwards.

Lately I've been thinking that merging Red and Yellow slots could be a really interesting idea. If you were a shooter would you sacrifice a weapon for a yellow? If you were a Fixer would you sacrifice your ellow slot for an extra weapon? At that point it would remove most of the distinction between Speeder and Enforcer, while resulting in a lot more interesting boat variations than simply adding a new boat. The other boats would remain relevant.

As an alternative I've also been thinking of a new support boat that's heavy in yellow slots but only with the firepower of a Fixer. As support they would be in the mix using stun to help their teammates, and shields/nitro/OB to protect themselves as they will likely be in the front lines.

 

I'm with you. In addition the game is currently struggling under some serious issues that should be priority for the devs. They've got a combat game with a broken progression system. That needs addressing badly. Assuming they manage to pull it all together I'm not totally against the idea of new ships but not just for the sake of interest. If there's to be a new ship I want a new and clearly defined role for it. For instance, the sub sounds like an assassin. I thought speeders already handled that function.

Insofar as the enfo, I have mixed feelings. Man when I look at good high level enfo's they make some awesome use of those boats. At anything below that the enfo seems a bit lost. I wonder what it'd be like if you turned it into a stronger support boat... less guns... more tricks. It'd be interesting to have a boat dedicated to enemy control.

 

I play enforcer as full.support.. low cooldown continuos damage for weapons especially flare.. and frost.or.teslas to change the tide of the battle. Or make a person regret there few feeet to far into open water.. alowing my shooters to pummel him and if need be toss in one of my quick cooling weapons to finish him off.