Nerf Shooter Thread!

Easy on the confidence there
As a 100% f2p player I've had to rely solely on the rng engine to build my inventory and my luck has proven very weapon heavy.
I have at least T4, but mostly T5 duplicates for every weapon that I want, and a few that I dont (Except the gatling gun of course).
I had reached mk6 however, before I had a T3 big shield or turbo, and I still only have 3 tesla shields and a T4 overboost after 2+ years of dedicated grinding.

Edit :
I've also combined 5 legendary reds (not counting the 6 from achievements), 2 blues and 1 yellow/green each.

 

I've combined 1 red, 1 blue, 1 yellow in that order.
I combined red, and a month later got blue. A week later got yellow (frost blaster ). And now I still have not gotten a green combine even though I'm almost at my second red combine.
Red definitely comes by most often.

 

I’m almost certain that Yellows and Blues have a proportional drop rate. I’ve been playing Speeder for over a year (not even f2p), and I’ve still only had a single Epic Nitro. I’d been in Ace 1 for six months before I finally resolved to buy my first Epic TS from the shop for 3000 pearls, because I still hadn’t had one. And I only managed to get my 3rd Epic Turbo and 4th Epic Shield since Gearlube was removed.

In that time I’ve been able to combine two Legendry Reds, and I’ve found enough Epic duplicates to get EC, Sniper, Big Torp, and Grenade to t5. In fact I’ve had eight Big Torps and Snipers so far.

I think it’s fair to say that Speeder has it a bit easier with some gear. Rare Nitro and Rare Turbo would still be quite usable, even at 5k. Rare Tesla Bolt can also stun for way over 10 seconds (which is long enough).

On the other hand, Speeder is quite limited in its weapon choices, and whatever you choose, you pretty much need to build your whole ship around it, which makes RNG much more difficult. I’d like to be able to run Big Torp + EC, or Napalm + EC, but there isn’t space. If I wanted to run something unconventional like Railgun, then I’d probably ‘need’ a very specific 1 slot item to complement it (like a Sniper), else it wouldn’t work. Same if I wanted to run a Mortar, I’d be depending on RNG to give me a decent Frost Launcher. Even a meta build like EC+Flare, requires a lot of luck/time with RNG, to get good versions of those two ‘specific’ items. I think Shooter has a lot more freedom in that respect.

 

Exactly, shooter is the easiest ship to build as f2p simply because of availability of red items. But I guess people here know that Devs don't give two cents about rng complaints so only thing they're left with is "nurf shootaz" complaints.

I started playing at global and I have received all epic dupes for every red item (except Gatling gun obviously). I was a defender main and ideal defender setup would need 18 epic standard shields. Guess how many I've got so far. 3.
Maybe I could replace one with bandage. Guess how many I've got since global? 2.
I'm 7/10 my way towards my 6the legendary red (not counting achievements) but not even half way through second red/blue/green. You don't have to be smart to see a pattern here.

It's pretty simple. Game gives you more red items. Shooter makes use of those items and have legendary achievements. So more people play shooter than any other boat but people here just like crying over things that are direct result of rng system.

They just reduced blue items by 2 and added another red item. I guess that's shooter players' fault as well.

 

For one, I don't think that usage rates are the best indicator of what's overpowered - since many items are used solely to counter another item. I was simply responding to a person that uses and quotes the site's stats like it's gospel - to see if they would ignore their favorite site stats when the stats were inconvenient. Spoiler alert: they ignored them.

Secondly, I just went through the leaderboard and a large number of players are (hilariously) switching to ridiculous setups when they log off. So, I'm not sure how accurate those stats are .. or how accurate they'll be when he starts updating them again.


Anywho, I'd assume we're talking about the game as a whole when talking about which of the game's items are OP (or need nerfs) ..

Regardless, I'm not sure that targeting the #8 item on that list is any different than arbitrarily picking any other item - if usage rates were a sign of OPness - considering that those percentages go over 100% when a great deal of players are using multiples ...

In other words, the formula isn't (# of firebombs equipped) ÷ (# of shooters × 5 weapons) .. it's (# of firebombs) ÷ (# of shooters) .. so shooters with 4 firebombs are skewing the stats a bit ..

So .... I'm not sure what the point of debating which stats to use was .... other than if it was just a knee-jerk reaction ...

People love to toss up bay stats showing EC or shooter usage, but people get real anxious the second you mention the flare or BC bay stats.

 

Wow... A lot of the weapons I use on my shooter are in the minority.

 

The other point I wanted to make is this: Being the most popular Ship (or item) isn't proof that it is OP. (Thanks to @xArrogance for typing the same thing at the same time!)
I just like to play Shooter better. I've always wanted do Fixer as a secondary boat, and I've tried to switch to Enforcer, but to be honest, there isn't enough Power Cells available to build up a Fixer. It's easier to justify building a handful of Yellows to enable the Speeder and Enforcer usage. More than anything, it bothers me when I don't play Shooter to see how bad others play it. Skilled yellow boats can tear them apart every time.

And let's face it, which boat is better equipped to complete the massive variety of weapon specific Guild Quests than a Shooter? The game is designed around the boat, but that again doesn't make it OP.. just makes it optimal for certain things. Keep in mind the next most weapons on a boat is 3... what if we added a 4-weapon boat? That would be the real game balance changer many of you are looking for. I want one of those!

 

Swap one of defenders blue slot with red. Done.

 

Respectfully, could I ask you guys to elaborate on exactly what you mean here?

I see comments like this quite frequently, but they don’t pertain to any version of the game that I’ve played.

Maybe back in P0rthos era, when Speeders had perpetual stuns (no stun resistance), more hp, and the 12 second EC, then they could shred a Shooter. But the game has changed a lot since then, and I’m not entirely sure you guys realise how much.

I’m running a level 50 Epic EC, and do you know how long it would take me to kill a full health Shooter? Even if we ignore the time that I need to spend running away and healing up, even if we ignore the time I need to spend in cover, and the GCDs from my Yellow Items, even if we ignore missed shots (trust me it’s not easy to consistently land an EC hit, at max range, backwards, while overboosting between waves). Even if we ignore all of that, it can still take upwards of a minute (of continuous firing) to whittle down their hp.

On the other hand, a Shooter can destroy me in 7.5 seconds, with three well placed shots. And even if they don’t, they can just keep shooting.

You might think Speeders are hard to hit. In full flight, across an open area, they certainly can be. But within EC range, and with obstacles, mines, torps etc... to negotiate. Speeder really isn’t that hard to hit. I might only manage to evade one in three shots. Even if we put it at one in five. A Shooter firing every 2.5 seconds, will destroy me in 37.5 seconds. That’s way faster than it is physically possible for me to destroy him, and way more evasive than I actually am.

Prior to the agility update, this time could be extended by trying to avoid the turret, but that’s completely gone now.

I don’t know in what universe a Shooter is easy prey for a Speeder, but I honestly (genuinely) would love to know how this is achieved? Please tell me how it is done? It would ‘in absolute seriousness’ make my year, and win you this argument.

Give me Speeders to fight all day long (it’s easy killing Speeders). Even Enforcers! Enforcers will usually beat me, but at least I can try to form some strategy around breaking their shields, or sneaking inside, and they’re pretty squishy on the inside.

Shooters are my absolute nightmare. So many hp, and so much damage to outlast. Unless, they brought something stupid like all mortars, I don’t usually stand a chance.

And further to that point. Even if I do play it perfectly, and manage to kill the Shooter, it still takes too long. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve played my ass off to take down a lone Shooter, only to find my entire team has meanwhile died and left me 3v1.

Taking far too long to kill not enough Shooters, is costing me thousands of infamy. If you guys have the solution, I am all ears.

 

Mk7 shooter w/ bandage ~ 9200 HP
Mk7 speeder w/ bandage ~ 7400 HP (plus TS)

Speeder Loadout:
Max Epic Flare + EC ~ 4600-4700 damage
Max Epic Flare + BC ~ 4100-4200 damage

Number of shots to kill shooter - 4 or 5

My current load out .. Sniper, Rail, EC, FB, Grenade
I'm not hitting a speeder FB or EC .. with a grenade, there's probably a 5% chance - if they come into range, with a rail or sniper, there's probably a 10-20% chance, depending on the waves ..

My rail will pop the TS - assuming I hit. So, I might get a sniper shot off in the same time they've hit me for 40-50% of my health .. then they're out of range or behind cover.

On top of all that, the flare is costing me 30% of my healing ...


So .. again, it might have something to do with your other item levels if you're struggling against max epic loadouts .. or, based on that vivid description, it could be that you're sitting completely still while the shooter unloads every single weapon .. because I don't remember a single time in 20k battles that I was able to shoot all 5 shots at the same speeder consecutively .. except for the times where they were playing with me - dodging every single shot.

 

gimmie I'm using a T1E for events

 

Thanks for telling is is another pro for shooter.
Easiest Ship to Build.
Now why would anyone pass up the easiest ship to build which also happen to be most rewarding for the amount of effort. Thats should explain over 50% usage of shooter.
4 ship combined usage is less than usage of 1 thats too unbalanced.
Its not shooters fault devs gave shooter so much advantage. They build the game around it. That is not fair for other ships.
So Battle bay is partial to shooter. Then what are we other ship user doing here. Playing support for shooter or being target for them.

 

shooters are OP against speeders because of " hitting the rapid " update ,now since they have max max agility speeders can't do death circle around them , so it is better to shoot from a distance ,but because most shooters use 2 SC(at least at my infamy ) it won't be easy too .

 

And there is not only one shooter shooting.

 

I see the trolls are back ...

There's an easy way to settle this. If you're a speeder main .. load up your shooter, and I'll load up a speeder .. we'll see who wins.

 

I think you are vastly overestimating how evasive Speeders really are.

Fire Bombs actually do hit, especially since the update. It can be difficult to Nitro out of the area in time, because from circle to hit, is now faster than GCD. I wouldn’t say they’re a big threat to me, but getting clipped on the edge happens quite often, and being set on fire is obviously extremely dangerous. Grenade is also pretty fast now, and causes a burn.

EC hits all the friggin time, and it does so much damage, or breaks my Shield. It’s probably my most hated weapon on Shooters.

Sniper hits quite consistently, and if it crits it’s often worse than EC.

Railgun, never bothered me too much, until it started stunning, but obviously if it does hit it is devastating.

I’m not sitting still and letting Shooters unload on me. I can share one of my ‘best’ games, so you can see how I play, and how fast maxed speed really isn’t. (Though parts of the video are sped up to make it less boring).



Bear in mind, that winning 2v1 like this is still an exceptionally rare event for me. It involved a lot of luck, getting crits at the right time, and if that Railgun shot hadn’t gone into a wave, it would have been all over. Also, I’m against mostly Ace 2 guys, so I outclass them a bit.

However, you will notice that many of the mortars actually do clip me, or I escape them ‘just’ in time. This was before the update. With the projectile speed buff, it is fairly clear that a lot of them would have hit me.

You will also notice that I get hit by Blasts quite a few times, which are ‘similar’ to EC. It’s really not that easy to avoid them every time, in real situations. And on the second kill, I beat the Shooter to the punch because his turret was slower. That’s also not really possible anymore. I probably would have died right there, if I played the same game today.

 

Upto now all we have heard from anti nerf squad is
Shooter is the first ship we got.
more than 50% NML are shooters. To reach NML you need mk6.
What we get at start is mk1. Now everyone has tried other ships upto mk4-5. They choose shooter, if yellows were that good why didn't they upgraded yellow earlier.

2nd. We choose shooter because its easier to build as f2p.
I am f2p, you don't play a ship because its easier to build. You play it because you like it.
3rd shooter seems op because of free legs.
Its true. But noone was saying shooter is op before this update. Leg achievement update came way way back.
You know what don't nerf shooter, give them same agility as enfo since it wouldn't change anything.
Too much agility doesnt add much for enfo or speeder. It helped defenders and made shooter op. Now they can nail enemy from far and also keep up in close range. While other ship got only short range. A ship which is effective everywhere like sniper but unlike sniper it doesn't have 45% chance to be good. It always is.

 

It's an 1800 HP difference (if the speeder is using a turbo) .. and that's one good shot's difference .. for something that's probably 25% as likely to be hit.

But, people will disagree.

All of my training is set up for shooter for now (until I level up my yellow items), so, as I said, I'd be happy to prove it to any speeder main here .. load up your shooter with all your mortars, FBs and ECs .. and I'll load up my speeder. We'll see who comes out on top.

It's obvious from reading this thread that the speeder takes so much skill and a shooter takes zero skill .. so I should be at a huge disadvantage ... Right? @DragonLegend @ViscountSniffit

 

Here is your answer.
Also its not a 1v1 game.
Shooters are op in 5v5. Which is the normal scenario.