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Let's remake the Defender

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by TheAntiSnipe, 2 Mar 2018.

  1. NoTtIaN

    NoTtIaN Well-Known Member

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    What if, it could?
     
    Cryix likes this.
  2. NoTtIaN

    NoTtIaN Well-Known Member

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    butt, when I was thinking of the stats it was much weaker. Common: 200 hp +4/upgrade. Tier V is 400 hp Uncommon: 250 hp +5/upgrade Tier V is 500 hp Rare: 300 hp +7/upgrade Tier V is 650 hp Epic: 350 hp +9/upgrade Tier V is 800 hp OP?
     
  3. Terry Morgan

    Terry Morgan Well-Known Member

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    I agree about hit box. Defendef hitbox is bigger than the ship and speeder hitbox is virtually non existent. By design I imagine. Devs wan you to hit a yellow flea on crack but yet make ole blue so easy to hit that a one eyed golfer could hit it blindfolded a half mile away. Sad.
     
  4. xxxBISMARCKxxx

    xxxBISMARCKxxx Well-Known Member

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    I watched your video you linked, for one thing the guy did the most dmg on your team by far for another I've seen that guy around and never seen him play Defender. So you could 'blame' guild quests but since he did the most dmg I don't even know why you would blame anything...
     
  5. Sreg

    Sreg Active Member

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    I had the idea, the ability to put a special device in the red slot, only for the defender, the device creates a quarter shield in front of the defender, it is much stronger and unlimited for the duration of the action, but the defender can not simultaneously hold the shield and shoot, switch between guns or shield takes time. But the shield can be controlled if the defender puts the shield in the water, then the torpedoes fall into the shield, and not into the ship, and if the shield is raised up, it will protect against mortars.
     
  6. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

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    Sounds OP tho...
     
  7. Valkhadin

    Valkhadin Active Member

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    I'm sure it's already been suggested, but what about something as simple as a charge dash ability? A limited straight forward burst, maybe a small impact damage, when colliding with enemy ships. 20 sec cool down or so. It would mostly just be effective to help dodge torps in open waters. Watch out for mines Though! Lol
     
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  8. PastelPiku

    PastelPiku Well-Known Member

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    Make shields % hp, too. Should scale fantastically with defender. Let's be honest, 20k hp isn't that much when you can do 2k damage in 1 shot. That's just 10 heavy hits. And that's about as good as your health can get.
     
  9. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

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    There have been a ton of great ideas here, and I agree with a lot of them.

    The idea to make defence more meaningful will be awesome, and will make defenders turn into juggernauts that can shrug off damage.

    The ideas to allot separate slots to rudder and lube are awesome, 100% to those. However, I have a doubt here: Will they still work on existing blue slots, should some ships not receive them? Or will we have one-two new "x-colored" slot for each ship? If so, when will it unlock? I'd love running rudder on a speeder again, that's for damn sure.

    Don't like the "bandages healing percentile health" idea a lot, I think it might lead to some crazy stuff happening.

    Ofc, I'd like a new system to be added here: Weight penalties. Defender will not suffer from them, but with every twoslot weapon/CC/shield/fixer item equipped, there will be a penalty of x% movespeed. Doing this, and removing the excannon nerfs, would be some superb improvements to the defender experience imo.

    Also, buffing turnspeed and turretspeed will be awesome for defenders.
     
    Jowiee and *JAWS* like this.
  10. PastelPiku

    PastelPiku Well-Known Member

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    I still think shields should be the item to get a new color. They're basically essential to every setup, so it makes more sense to seperate them from the movement and utility options. I say add 1 more slot to the total for this, or scale up base speed on all ships and scale down turbo efficiency so they're not mandatory.
     
    TheAntiSnipe likes this.
  11. Scogel

    Scogel Member

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    I feel like the bandage needs some sort of fix. Its almost useless on defender because it heals for such a small amount of their health. So one idea is heal for a % of their missing health. This stops it from being crazy good all the time. Just helps them survive when they get low. Another idea is to make bandage immune to the flare gun debuf. Defenders are notoriously easy to hit, and with the flare used so widely defenders are almost always pegged with it and have even less healing from the bandage.
    One thing I've seen is make a new item type for defenders. I personally love this idea but you'd have to add these to all ships to even it out. Things I was thinking of were:
    1. Block X amount of projectiles from X damage type. Example: Torpedo shield, first 3 torpedoes that hit you directly deal no damage or splash, saves you and your team and makes it more defendy.
    2. Fire resistance, defenders key thing currently is that they have a lot of defence, but defence doesnt lower the amount of fire damage which hurts defender quite a bit, this would lower the amount of damage done by fire by some %.
    One thing for these, I wouldn't make them items, that's just one more thing people would need to upgrade. I would add say a "ship perk slot" on each, with the four rarites and different ones for each ship. Basically item perks for ships. This would allow more differentiation between the ship types.
    Another option to buff it, weight penalty per ship and the defender has almost none. Shields would be super heavy, so say a speeder couldnt run a large one without slowing it down.
    Sorry if I repeated any ideas.
     
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  12. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

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    After months of trying to lead the charge while cowardly shooters hide out near spawn, you can't blame us for giving up on the charge strategy. When it works, it's awesome and powerful. Sadly, you can't depend on teammates to follow, or even attack amidst the chaos you cause.

    As for defenders using 2 Bertas... My condolences.
     
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  13. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

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    It was a damage nerf. This is undisputable fact.
    Cannon cooldown was increased by 20%. Therefore you get 20% fewer shots in. Therefore you do 20% less damage.
     
    Last edited: 8 Mar 2018
  14. Help I Cant Swim

    Help I Cant Swim MVP

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    Since these discussions have begun, I've started to watch closer how Defenders are being played and how successful they are. In my opinion.... Defenders are not weak or underpowered at my infamy level..

    I am just north of 3k, so people in the 4k and then 5k ranges might want to chime in and say something different.

    There are two main ways I've seen Defender played... most are either out in the open or attacking with cover. The ones that are out in the open become quick and easy targets because they are so slow that they get trapped out there. There is no buff in the world that can help these players. The ones that play the boat well are using cover to there advantage to get as close to the enemy as possible in close quarters. They lead their team, but not by just sailing out into the middle of a mortar field.

    There are some defenders that are dominating games at my infamy. Any significant buff to them would be terrifying. I know that the >5k crowd is seeing very few Defenders, but let's not make the boat OP at lower infamies just because it doesn't scale well. Find a way to make it only more powerful at the top.
     
  15. Shadow Moon!

    Shadow Moon! Well-Known Member

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    I have faced many scary defenders at 3k with 10 12k hp and having viable build ( not bertas, 2 tri torps aka quest completing players). They play really well lock down ships so they can't run.
    I see defenders bringing 3 bandages I mean wtf 3 flare stacks and that defender is toast. Can't do anything.
    For ships having limited number of weapons its crucial to have viable build. You can't spam like shooters 5 shots 1 after another and hope something lands on target you miss 2 out of 3 you're doomed. I have seen a defender having 2 snipers and railgun he wrecked half the team was awesome almost carried the game.
     
    Last edited: 8 Mar 2018
  16. xxxBISMARCKxxx

    xxxBISMARCKxxx Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear because I can't remember, how often do you play Defender? Because I'm reading through your takes and thinking hmm you're like talking about improving Defender but it sounds like you're also highly interested in the Speeder-side outcome. Don't like bandage as %, why because it's worst for lowest health ship. Want ex cannon nerf removed... but Speeders we're using ex cannon to great effect. Want separate rudder slot.. because Speeder already using up blue slots on other important things.

    So again as you talk about "superb improvements to Defender experience", how much do you actually play Defender?
     
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  17. Sreg

    Sreg Active Member

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    And already offered power armor ?, armor that absorbs for example 15% of the damage, and energy is consumed on absorption, if energy is over, then it will not be absorbed anymore, and it will be necessary to leave the battlefield to replenish energy, and by the way, part of the energy can be get, if you get a Tesla bolt, it's such a little life hack.
     
  18. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

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    I do play defender, I have a mk5. Waiting on the second bandage, however, due to the developments I have going on in terms of my enforcer and speeder builds, I lack the twoslot burst weps. I run double blast and flare. One thing that hurts me is that I lack the heavy armor to really play Defender outside of Ace 3, so I'm waiting on that baby shield.

    I was a defender main first of all, until mk3. Till mk4, I was a shooter main. At mk5, I play enfo, speeder and defender.

    Naturally, it is in my interests for all ships to develop.

    Edited to add:
    I don't like the bandage idea because I think defenders recovering duct tape-like health will be pretty OP. Trust me, I'd main defender if this happened, but then, bandage would be nerfed to the ground.
     
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  19. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

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    The issue is, WHEN they do get low, it will heal for A LOT. It will outheal a lot of stuff if scaled wrongly.
    The rest of your ideas are good. But I think somebody has to touch up on how this bandage idea will scale, because I see defenders at 1k/20k health healing for 500+ every five seconds. I know this can be great in NML where wep bursts exceed 2k, however in the lower leagues, defenders will be super OP(I ain't complaining, I have a mk5 and an epic t2 bandage rn;))
     
  20. Jamie7777

    Jamie7777 Member

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    Now anti snipe. I have done some research and i have some ideas for you.
    They should make ship abilities. You can get 3 for each but only equip 1 and use it every 60 seconds in battle the procting ones onoy procts once every 60 secs(feel free to change the cooldown) every ship can equip a passive booster or proc booster or activating booster. You can upgrade these with a new color of parts and pearls. See, you cannot pay to win these because you can only get parts by battling, like stars.
    The shooter
    passive will be it has 30% faster turret and 15% ship rotation
    The proc is when under 20% health weapons reload 20% quicker.
    And the active booster is reduce the reload time LEFT of each weapon by 10 secs and heal 10% of health over the course of 5 secs.
    The defender
    The defender's hitbox should be reduced to remove the hit on the two flaps on the sides. It should also get a health boost and defence
    The passive is. Bandage does 20% more and turning speed is 20% more and defence is 30% more
    Proc is when defender is under 10% health weapons do 20% more damage and defender moves 20% faster
    The active is shield wall. All ships in the repair pulse radius of defender gets a transparent shield and it inscreases defence by 30%
    And increases its own by 30% too
    Speeder.
    Passive turbos effect is increased by 20% and ship turning speed and overboost and nitro speed is increased by 20%
    Proct is when speeder is under 20% health it moves faster and when it hits a critical it is healed for 5 percent health and moves faster for 3 secs this can proct every 15 secs
    Active: speeders speed is increased by 20% for 5 seconds and its health is healed by 15% over 5 seconds
    Enforcer: passive: fire damage is 20% less tesla shield has 20% more health and weapons that hit you are less likely to be a critical. You are stunned for 20% less
    Proct. When enforcer lands a critical. It stunnes the person hit for 4 secs no buff the reduces further stuns. Add more
    Active. Makes a tesla shield looking wall that shields from low flying mortars and cannon shots but only at the wall. Health is increased with upgrades.
    Fixer.
    Passive. Standard shield does 20% more. You go backwards faster. And when fixer lands a critical hit it heals itself for 30% of that damage.
    Proc. When healer is under 30% health its repairing items do 15% more and it moves 15% faster and when fixer dies. Any ship inside the repair pulse+2 radius. Is healed for 30% of their health.
    Active: idk
    Remember u can only equip one of these.
    Feel free to criticize and hurt me.
     
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