1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hey please check out our new forum Suggestions and Ideas found in the area "The Bay" - as we love all your ideas and want to collect them in one place, - please use it going forward. :) Thanks already for helping to make Battle Bay an even better experience. Remember: If your idea already exists - simply add your comment or like to an existing one so we avoid duplicates.
    Dismiss Notice

DevReply I think matchmaking is ok.

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by Bobbafed99, 13 Aug 2017.

  1. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    417
    When you share a replay with guild, do the different members view the replay with their respective latency?

    Is the replay actually a "video recording" or a "player input" recording?

    I shared a video of a blast cannon shot landing in the water next to me, but killing me. My guild mate said it was nothing, the blast cannon has big hit scan. I'm led to believe he watched the replay and it hit my ship, but every time I watch the replay it lands in the water next to me (watching in free range mode, from my perspective, and from the other player's perspective)
     
  2. Rainbow Warrior

    Rainbow Warrior Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    1,606
    If I understood correctly, yes! :D
     
  3. Spartacus

    Spartacus Active Member

    Joined:
    9 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    159
    Thanks for giving me a shot to investigate and reply. So I spoke with my PM and had him download and play the game, which he is actually enjoying very much :)

    He responded pretty quickly though that he is confident that the win/loss ratios are being artificially manipulated and gave me some examples of how they did it in some of the games his team developed. I googled some of the terms he mentioned and was surprised how sophisticated games designs have been for a long time now, to the point that the theories floating around here that seemed too complex, are actually pretty simple to do. He also had a good point, Rovio’s income aside, if we progressed through BB to quickly, we would get bored and quit. In the alternative, if we began losing to much, people get angry, and once again, quit. So it’s understandable that a game designer would use Dynamic game difficulty balancing (aka dynamic difficulty adjustment (DDA), dynamic game balancing (DGB), etc, to find a balance for players. My only gripe, is that I like to know the rules of the game, not here bogus statements that they don’t manipulate the game. Although, it’s also not good for business to tell the players that their win/loss is partially out of their hands, hence the runaround!

    Here are some interesting links:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_game_difficulty_balancing
    http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/~hunicke/pubs/Hamlet.pdf
    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1c18/5672690f2bef1ce70063f60a24b80e545e63.pdf
     
    Raunak and Bradley Thorinsson like this.
  4. Miika

    Miika Game Lead

    Joined:
    29 Mar 2017
    Messages:
    953
    You have been told serveral times the rules of the game. There is no manipulation happening.

    All of the references you linked are about single player games where dynamically adjusting difficulty is a norm because the whole product is all about building a tailored experience for you. Something that is just the right difficulty no matter how good or bad you are. AI enemies don’t have feelings and they don’t mind if you adjust their hitpoints, damage, speed, accuracy etc to make the player enjoy more the journey through the story of the game.

    However, Battle Bay is not a single player game. You are playing against real humans who have real feelings and all of a sudden the landscape is completely different. The game is not all about you anymore. You can’t manipulate any of those parameters anymore because there is no AI to adjust, and simply because it wouldn’t be fair for the other players. The goal of making the experience better would be ruined because every time you do shady tricks to help one player out you would be ruining the experience for others.

    Therefore the mechanic utilized by multiplayer games to offer meaningful difficulty for everyone is simply matchmaking. The better you are at winning the better opponents you face. If you win more than you lose you raise towards more tougher seas. If you lose more than you win you sink back to easier battles. This naturally stable and selfbalancing logic guarantees that everyone ends up floating around 50/50 until something changes in your performance again.

    In the end it’s pretty simple: if you are perfectly equally matched you’ll win half of the time. Otherwise the matches wouldn’t have been equally, right?

    Naturally you are free to choose if you personally believe an official statement of the truth or not. However it is not acceptable to keep spreading unsubstantiated conspiracy theories and misinformation in every thread because it causes confusion. We love players speculating and theorycrafting around the game then it comes to matters of opinion and preference. On absolute and undeniable facts there is no place for fake news in Battle Bay.
     
  5. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

    Joined:
    11 Jun 2017
    Messages:
    9,118
    Location:
    Classified top secret ;-)
    Right here:
    Screenshot_2018-04-25-12-46-46-097_cn.wps.moffice_eng.png
    What they used was "machine learning", and trained an AI with it. Basically, what @Miika said is this: You CAN do this dynamic balancing when you are in singleplayer. However. The issue, even in these reports, is that, even in those conditions where a user is fighting AI with both sides having limited moves, this "balancing" will fail if the user "regresses" or makes simple mistakes. BB has weapons, terrain, a dynamic battlefield, and is multiplayer AND you have to correctly make sure the RIGHT weapon is manipulated upwards with sustainable accuracy, for a few (hundred?) Thousand players at a time.

    I find that impossible to do, since even the research on this topic(and I'm talking cutting edge research) has only been able to apply to singleplayer gameso_O
     
    Last edited: 25 Apr 2018
  6. Spartacus

    Spartacus Active Member

    Joined:
    9 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    159
    I appreciate the comprehensive reply, and I am not questioning your integrity or attempting to spread fake news, it’s not like I have a competing product that I am trying to recruits business for. By character, I try to get to the bottom of things, even things as trivial as a game. I have played almost 6k games and have noticed things that are inconsistent, that’s all. For example, if you look at the 30+ game result screenshots I posted earlier in this thread, you will see my stats vs the rest of the players. It’s mathemetacally strange to see an almost perfect 50/50 balance among the players without any external controls, and if you reference those mentioned screenshots, even though I was usually, the #1, the team repeatedly lost. When I consulted my PM, he mentioned it would be pretty easy to offset the aim points for example, for a team that needs to be balanced downwards, however, you have stated the B.B. does not do this.

    In any case, I still enjoy B.B. and think it’s a very fun game, and I apologize for bringing up this topic.
     
    Last edited: 25 Apr 2018
  7. Spartacus

    Spartacus Active Member

    Joined:
    9 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    159
    Thank you for allowing me to post, I did my final reply Mikka. Most internet sites get uncivilized pretty quickly, I guess it’s easy when no one can see a face. In any case, this all comes from a genuine curiosity. Again, thanks, it was cool of you!
     
  8. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

    Joined:
    11 Jun 2017
    Messages:
    9,118
    Location:
    Classified top secret ;-)
    I can say, from experience, even when I've gone on streaks(and I have believe me, 6.5k games here...) I haven't had misses personally. It has just been a case of people making mistakes, going for the speeder instead of the fixer, and as such. I know this since I check my loss replays to look for mistakes I personally make.
     
    What's Up Player likes this.
  9. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

    Joined:
    11 Jun 2017
    Messages:
    9,118
    Location:
    Classified top secret ;-)
    Ya, I'm cool with people being civilized and curious, it helps when you try to explain stuff, y'know?
     
    Spartacus likes this.
  10. Spartacus

    Spartacus Active Member

    Joined:
    9 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    159
    You know, I’ve had the opposite experience as well. I am literally hitting almost every shot for back-to-back games. I know I’m not that good haha
     
    TheAntiSnipe likes this.
  11. Fiorell

    Fiorell Active Member

    Joined:
    24 May 2017
    Messages:
    112
    Huh? At Clash Royale I'm getting matched against others 1 Level above me 50% of the time, and 2 Levels above me 20% of the time. 10% of the time I'm clashing against someone 1 Level below me.
     
    Rainbow Warrior likes this.
  12. Fiorell

    Fiorell Active Member

    Joined:
    24 May 2017
    Messages:
    112
    Ssshh! They are going after you. And Blizzard hates Priests. They HATE them!
     

Share This Page