Guild matchmaking is destroying guilds

^ Instead of typing all that, I should have just posted this.

 

I think after this update, we will find out if Rovio thinks it worked or not.
There have been so many threads and ideas thrown around to fix the guild rivalries that surely one of them could be the solution that keeps people spending pearls on boosts(benefit of the DEVs) and more evenly distributes guild tokens(benefit to the Players). My personal choice would be LARGER guild rivalries, go to 25 guilds instead of 6 and base your matchmaking on a combination of quests/infamy. It is so crushing to finish in 6th place after grinding all week long and 1st place only has two or three more quests than you. I've lost so many active guild members because of this, guild loyalty has greatly deteriorated. I see it on my friends list too, guys jumping around every two weeks to new guilds.

 

Pedantrics first Dropping from 192k to 171k is a 11% (rounded up) drop. Add in the bonus tokens for contributing to a quest and you are safely below 10%.

Agreed that most players arent clearing board5 though, so the math will be different for alot of players.
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Also agreed that the large differences in rivalry finishing positions is what is creating the feeling of missing out that leads to threads like this.

I do, however, think that people have large difficulties comprehending what average position you should expect with 6 contestants. My guess is that most complaits comes from people who benefitted more from the hopeless infamy based matchmaking we had before. Its tough to adapt to not winning every week.
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I like the difference in rewards, it makes the final push exciting and sometimes nervewrecking. Thats completely lost if we reduce the reward scaling as much as you suggest. At that point they should just scrap rivalries and have guild quests be an internal guild thing.

Perhaps that wouldnt be so bad - Then they could rethink rivalries into something where you actually play against your opponents. 5vs5 anyone?!

 

Rovio has already done that by making it so you have to have been in a guild for at least 1 rivalry.

 

These 2 quotes seem to contradict each other.
You can't agree that the problem is that the rewards are so far apart, and then say that my solution to fix exactly that is the wrong solution so let's just scrap everything.

There must a be a good balance somewhere.

I thought 6k - 21k is still quite a spread, especially considering the guilds being paired all the did the same # quests last week!

You don't think those extra 15k tokens (from 6th to 1st) are worth fighting for?

I think now you'll see ALL 6 guilds in a heated competition for every spot in the rivalry, rather than having every week boil down to just 2 guilds grinding to outspend each other while the other 4 guilds back off completely...

I didn't just toss out values on a whim. I made the total rewards still = 81k (we don't want Rovio giving away the farm!) And I made it so it's nearly +1 extra roll earned for every +1 placement. I could have made it exactly that, but it would have spaced it out a little more, and then the numbers also wouldn't be quite as round...

If I weren't so concerned with round numbers, and made it exactly +1 roll (+3500 tokens) per +1 placement, it would look like:
1st = 22,250 tokens
2nd = 18,750 tokens
3rd = 15,250 tokens
4th = 11,750 tokens
5th = 8,250 tokens
6th = 4,750 tokens

So, anyway... assuming you agree that there must be a balance somewhere... if you don't like my spread, what do you suggest?

 

I said that I think you are right with your analysis of why people feel like they are missing out. Thats not the same as me agreeing with whether that feeling is rational or justified, as the 2nd quote shows. I dont think reward spread is a problem, more than anything I think people should stop acting like rivalry finishing positions are a big deal.
Your numbers show the difference for a single season, but outside of the top 2-3 guilds (and guildhopping as a team, i.e. cheating) noone can maintain a much better than average rivalry position. Clever guilds will notice that 1-1-6 is better than 3-3-4 and coordinate what week to use boosts.

 

Missing 1k raffle tokens is not much of a penalty if it means getting 2-3 almost guaranteed wins in a row afterwards

 

Hey Max! Didn’t know you were here! I totally agree with this...eliminate rivalry, OR make it once a month so the world doesn’t revolve around it!

 

OMG! I loved it!... But it would bring new problems like being kicked and losing tokens (if we still have that punishment for switching guilds) or exploits.

 

True...but there would have to be rules about changing guild. I just hate that guild rivalry is back to back week after week! It’s such a chore!

 

Yeah! Thank god I'm now on a very good guild that doesn't make drama about the items and boats you want to use, it's just pick the quest and do your stuff

 

I say it was alot fairer than the old guild rivalry, but not sure about the better part. Why not just not have a competitive rivalry and give people guild raffle after a week for how much trophies they earn?

 

Yeah same, my guild is very chilled with just a 10k trophy contribution target for each person which is easy. We’re also winning, but I just wish there was breathing room inbetween!

 

This whole thread, and tons of people in tons of guilds all over the world, are all talking about how people have lost loyalty to guilds, and how it has everything to do with Rivalries.
There is only one possible explanation, and that's because the overwhelming feeling is that rivalry finishing positions are absolutely a big deal!
And the math I demonstrated earlier agrees -- rivalry finish positions are a big deal. Even for guilds that complete 5 boards, dropping from 1st to 2nd place is a big deal.

Ok, I now see what you meant to say above... It's not that rivalry finishes aren't a big deal... it's that a single finish isn't a big deal, because it gets averaged out with all the other weeks. And well, since everyone should (pretty much - cheating aside) have the same averages. So yeah, stop worrying...

As correct as that is (and it's mostly correct), that is still a TOUGH message to sell.

Players don't want to hear that because they won last week, they need to lose 2 weeks in a row to reset before they can win again.
They don't want to hear that getting 3.5th place on average is what everyone gets.
They think they're special. (This is the psychology of nearly every casual gamer, and even most hardcore gamers who aren't also theorists.)

I'm telling you - no matter how right you are about this, you won't have any success selling this to the masses.
Especially the hardest working players, they think they should be able to find a guild that can win every week. I don't know why - they just think that.

So I still think my solution to reduce the differential between the positions is valid.
Then each week won't feel like it's the most important thing in the world...
(And you still get to be right that individual week finishes don't matter that much in the long run.)

 

I don’t disagree with you, but the problem is not with my expectations not being met. If that were the only issue, then I could just adjust my expectations: problem solved.

What I can’t do, however, is grow and nurture a guild, when there is no incentive for good players to stick around. And when a good player leaves, the situation goes from bad to worse.

Guilds used to be something people took pride in. Now they are more like disposable shells, that just get used, and then quickly abandoned, once they stop being profitable.

 

I expect to win the first place once followed by second, then third all the way to the bottom of the quest board which, if I'm not wrong, is the intended outcome for balanced rivalry.

I was just trying to point out that after you get 1st the next position is 4th, 5th or 6th for the next 4 weeks. Does that sound okay? I mean what about getting 2nd and 3rd for once every 6 weeks? Nope. Usually the top guild will complete, say 'x' quests. Then guild number 2 and 3 are either at the same number or 1 off. And this can go on to 3rd and 4th as well while continuing for weeks.

All this creates problems in the guilds where members start pushing to complete more quests and pester other members to do the same or leave after giving up.

We are playing to enjoy the game as individuals and guild rivalry was there to make it enjoyable as a group.

I guess I'll start my own guild and ask members to play and fleet for infamy. Guild quests will not be an obligation and sharing guild boosts will be punishable by the all powerful 'Kick from guild'.

 

My guild is almost exactly this! We are together because we enjoy chatting. Participation is optional. Socialising is an obligation. If you are active in chat, then you won't be kicked. If you push about completing quests,you WILL get kicked. The guild rivalry has become such a joke we don't bother completing more than 3 boards. No point. The enjoyment was sucked out of it pretty quickly with the 40+quest grind every week. So we quit bothering

 

That rule is already in there. You cant get rewards for

Totally agree that guilds shouldnt be disposeable shells. I think its sad that migrating your whole guild to a new empty shell once a month is the most optimal path. The easy fix would be to create some positive incentive for being loyal to your guild (i.e. some stacking bonus that grows over time).