Current Shop System, does it suck?

Just a correction here. The update changed the weapon formatting entirely and scaled them accordingly. Max T3 items became Max T5. A high T2 became a T4. So Helios Maximus has a point, you did get the T5 prior to the Shop 2.0 system (unless it was a low T3, that would be a high T4 and would require 2 more duplicates).

 

I don't know how the convertion ratio was, but my T3 rare Bertha became T4 and my T2 epic cannon stayed T2, so go figure...

 

Yea... my t3 canon became a t4 canon maxed. I couldn't build it into a t5 until I got 2 additional epic standard canons for evolution. Took a while, and I think I got kinda lucky in my drops.

And Helius, congrats! That's great to hear that you are punching harder now. I look forwards to battling with you, and I hope I'm not against you.

I don't claim the current shop is perfect. I'm just saying, the road ahead is equally as long now as it was before. And instead of complaining about the shop holding you back, you should be focusing on improving your skillz in the bay. And it sounds like you guys are so that's awesome! Good work.

 

They basically took 30 levels and made it equivalent of 50 levels. (so 20 more levels that require more resources and parts, hmm, I wonder how much more that requires percentage wise? 30-50% increase?)

Here's the additional edits I made to that initial diagram.

 

i will probably be nightmare in like 8 years.

 

It's funny you say that, it's like telling a kid that wants to be a pilot some day for the Air Force to focus on strategies and tactics in his prop engine aircraft and all that, sure. In concept that works well, but at the end of the day, you need that actual superiority jet fighter to be an actual big boy and to practice with it. No different here, I can practice all I want with my Tesla Bolt, but in the end I want to be either an enforcer that runs a T5 Rare or T4 Epic Shield with other weapons and items. I can start praciticing now with smaller less effective low level items, but I don't think I can learn much from it at my current infamy. Unless I drop, but then I'm not actually competing with better players. It's an conundrum.

 

Sure, he won't be able to compete with the top players in the bay who have a huge head start on him (or huge cash reserves), nor should he be able to, it wouldn't be fair. But I can guarantee he will add a couple hundred infamy to his score as he learns how to compete better against players his own level and in his own league. And in that there is satisfaction.

Trust me bro, there's always something more to learn in terms of tactics and how to play better with your team. Think of the players you regularly fight with and against. Think about how you can support their play style, or defeat their setup. Think about what they expect you to do, and how to surprise them with a different approach. Figure out what position to play in each different team dynamic. If you are only yellow on a team of reds who like to mortar, what do you do? If unfriends have a fixer and you do not, what do you do? If you are facing off against a monster pro, what do you do?

Figure out when is the best time to go on the offensive, and when to reposition. Work on your timing, attacks come in waves, so when you make your run is important. Improve your battlefield sense, how closely do you watch the minimap to see when a good time to attack a target is, or when you need to support a team mate that is about to get in trouble.

When is the best time to play the bait, when do you charge in guns ablazing, who do you focus on first, when do you fake a capture, when do you take pot shots from behind a wall...

This is where the good players differentiate themselves from the poor players. It's about tactics, not only weapons. There's a lot you can do, even with a limited setup.

 

You're really belittling the biggest problem here, P0rthos. I see what you're trying to do, playing up tactics and strategy so people will focus less on their gear. It's a good strategy to keep people playing the game, but I'm not sure you understand how bad it is. It shows, when you say

Older players want to keep their hard-bought/grinded advantages, but it's seriously not good for balance. Everything just points back to this game being P2W.

The shop is set up the way it is to slow everyone down, not just free players, I get that. There are lots of top players who don't even have a maxed Epic yet, much less a Legendary. This isn't an argument that should be between haves and have-nots. The enemy is the shop, not people who got lucky or who joined early. The way the system is built automatically creates these huge gaps in power level so no one is ever really comfortable with where they are. On one hand, it can keep people playing the game. On the other hand...

It's bad, since it devalues skill, regardless of its presence in the game. As one of the top players P0rthos, please do not preach skill and then, in the same post, talk about how someone shouldn't be able to compete against a top player because it wouldn't be fair to them. When you say that, you're basically advocating in favor of a messed-up system because you got here earlier. If you really think skill is where it's at, your last nine months should be meaningless to you outside of the knowledge gained about strategy, tactics, and movements as you rose through the ranks. You should feel confident about challenging anyone on the forums and obliterating them in fair combat (if Battle Bay allowed that sort of thing). Instead of holding on to the time you spent grinding and upgrading, you should be favor of a system that evens the odds and makes skill the deciding factor. As it is, this might as well be Clash Royale.

Taking months or years to reach max power isn't reasonable for a competitive game. Rovio should really let people advance much more quickly, regardless of how long older players have been working at it.

 

Sounds really good on paper man. Really. But that's no reality. Maybe it was for you when you started up and where I am in terms of ship progression, however the top end of the spectrum are already filled with players with very strong weapons; stuns with 16 sec durations, freeze that immobolize forever, weapons that one shot kill me. Really, when you even attempt to try some of these tactics you speak of, we get shot down.

 

I think that even if the shop system revised to what you suggested, it will not be able to close up the gap between top players as well.... If you are able to get your preferred items easier and faster, so can they and they might do it even faster than lower league players since their league bonus are higher. So the gap might get even bigger... We are just going round in circles on this topic. Root cause still goes back to matching making setting up lower league players with mid to high league players with the obvious difference in fire power and ship specs.
No matter how many adjustment the Dev made to the shop and RNG system, with the current match making system, this issue will never be resolved.

I personally don't mind playing this game without the upgrade system. Every player just choose from a set of fix specs item and ship and join in a random game. But this take away the fun to grind and progress and I will most probably spend a lot lesser time on it.

 

More like while I wait, uninstall the game hahahaha. Funny joke amirightbutsrsly

 

Sure, that'd be nice. It'd be a truly competitive sports game at that point. Unfortunately the kind of game you want can't exist in a mobile environment. It's just not possible, or smart, given the state of mobile game economy. I think we all know that.

I'm of the philosophy to not complain about that which I cannot change, and work at bending reality to my will instead. It's worked out pretty well.

Maybe the current shop will get tweaked a little tho, maybe not. I believe the point has been made and remade, and devs are well aware.

In the meantime, It doesn't take Uber weapons to be a big dawg. Just ask bittersteel. Currently at 3900 infamy. Quite often in top 50-100 players in the world. Skills matter. Whine less. Play better.

 

plenty of top players still using rares and unmaxed epics... having the best items does help a lot but skills and teamwork are a must to stay at the top.

Took me almost a year to complete my epic weapons... most of my T5s are brand new, just about a month old (all the final pieces acquired via the current bonus opportunities in the shop) - probably boosted my average infamy by 200 points coz i can breach 4k infa more consistently now than before i completed my epic weapons.

Do i like the shop system now? NOPE, i definitely still prefer the old shop system and i gave the devs my opinion and more... but at the end of the day, it's their game. i was definitely frustrated with the new system but i decided to stop complaining about it because i love the battle gameplay so i just kept playing and hope that the devs can address my concerns, all the other players' concerns and then maybe, come up with something that can please the majority of players. some of the features in the system are definitely commercially motivated, but that's just how it is, this game has to make money - i just hope the devs can come up with a balance that can excite the spenders, sustain the grinders and entertain the casual players. (crossing my fingers on the next update)

Cheers! let's battle on...

 

Yep. you guys just confirmed that the shop sucks. And that the game requires either 1.5 years or 10,000 USD to compete with the likes of the best. Skill is an acquired ability by gaining experience and learning tactics, but that is required by the former to get to the top of the ladder. 10k usd faster ticket or 1.5 years minimum. So to all the new players, that's the predicament, and that's what Rovio wants. As for the top players, you can continue to enjoy your high horse, i get you accepted those facts and it makes perfect sense, you already are vested into it. Good for you, but let's get back on topic, the shop still sucks regardless of tactics or skill or infamy.

This game will never be taken seriously(as an eSport), and will be another Pay To Win or an insanely long build format. About 6months from now they introduce T6 weapons, MK7 and the cycle just becomes endless.

 

as it is... i have agree with u... so much potential though, right? hope they (rovio) make the right moves with this game

 

agreed. i just want to add that i find it so condescending when people like us who have complaints about the shop are called "whiners". why do they feel so bad about us complaining? are they rovio shareholders that feel our complaints when properly addressed will bring profis down a bit? i think complaining about something flawed is healthy and will help improve the game for EVERYONE playing battle bay.

another thing id like to add about the shop system. it tries to force the casual spender into the route of the whale (big spender). i get it that a whale will get what he wants if he spends enough money on pearls and buys all the 3.9k epic boxes he wants. i have no problem with that. he is a "whale" and can spend his money any way he wants. in the end, he will have his legendaries and all the stuff he need. the problem is the shop which caters to the whale forces the casual spender to go the "whale" route and not give the casual spender a reasonable alternate route to spend his measly twenty bucks or hundred bucks. he is made to feel that his money is so negligible that even after spending to help progress, nothing could be helped because twenty bucks or a hundred bucks is not appreciated by rovio. you get random items you dont need and you cant even trade it. best thing to do is to scrap the items you dont need and to the average joe, scrapping a hundred bucks just stings.

the whale gets the whole nine yards because he has a bottomless well of resources. im just asking for a couple of inches of progress. im not asking for the whole nine yards. not even one yard. just give me a couple of inches of substancial progress for my hundred bucks and ill be a happy camper. but to say that i have to scrap my hundred bucks is really hard to swallow for me.

 

I've seen a lot of games with much potential to be thrown away and turn into turds because of simple greed. Corporate politics are cancerous to mobile games like these. These small studios are under an unsurmountable pressure to create another hit wonder and are being completely blinded that at the end of the day, a game is supposed to be simply fun. Not with insanely frustrating build formats and RNG aspects. Compare to games like League of Legends, which don't implore pay to win and promote fair competitive play, they are insanely profitable as well with a completely different game model.

 

Remember that there is an actual max in power level, it doesn't just keep rising forever. Lvl 50 is still the highest level on a Legendary, it won't just keep rising until Big Torpedos do a million damage. The sooner the top players can reach the highest possible damage levels, the sooner we can, too. I think matchmaking is a separate issue, but do you know of any ways they can improve it? There was a thread about matching people based just on ship specs, but it got some pushback.

Also, remember that any step in the right direction is a good one. We shouldn't just accept the system and move on without any attempt at improving it. No one really thinks the system is perfect, do they?

You're one of the top players in the game, if anyone can get something to change, it's you!
The top players in any game, especially the most vocal and/or well-known, are always the main people that can get the devs to change their mind on anything. Instead of posting sarcastic screenshots mocking everybody, you can be a little less defeatist and put forward some idea on how to improve the game. You already mentioned that the shop isn't perfect, but you're still going to insult everyone on the forums who doesn't have your warped sense of patience?

It's simple! If you don't complain, nothing changes! You may think the game is perfect the way it is, but we don't. If you don't agree, simply leave the thread and hope the devs ignore us, or say why you think the shop works. Don't just stand around heckling.

Lastly, no, the game I'm describing can definitely exist in a mobile environment. P2W wasn't invented on phones. The mobile market is just stuck in the early 2000s and there aren't enough developers creating competitive games on phones to try rocking the boat. The closest games are mostly MOBAs and Hearthstone.