Battle Bay Hall of Shame

This isn’t so much about attacking players that are doing it (we haven’t called out any names and if we did the mods took care of it) but more about attacking the issue and our thoughts of fixing it. We are also pointing out that it’s more of an issue to most of the player base. The people doing it don’t see the problem because they are at the top. No one has level 70 weapons with a Mk9 ship so the people in NML don’t have this problem. They just think, “of easy coins”. Don’t get me wrong, it is easy coins. It’s easy to beat people with much worse gear then you. But that’s the issue.

Honestly let’s just hope this is all for nothing and they made some changes with the new events. Time will tell.

PS: I like the idea of upgrading all ships at once but they would need to figure out a way to balance your gold so it’s relatively the same. No reason for a NML to have a Mk2-4.

 

I like the idea of removing all the different weapons. To make it fair for all, all the ships should have exactly the same specs. All the weapons should be the same. Same dps, same range, same reload time. Same everything. And they should remove all the different talents. The current system makes it too easy for these cheaters to just use a different weapon. I have seen people abuse the defenders by adding even more armour to them! The defenders already have more hit points than a speeder. Fair? I don’t think so. Some of the cheaters can even perform calculations and figure out combinations that seem to be more effective in some very specific style of gameplay. I have also noticed that some some of these cheaters abuse the fleet option and somehow manage to enter the game with their friend... how’s that fair? Teaming with a Friend? That doesn’t look like random to me.

By figuring out what’s the optimal setup for you, you are not only cheating but you are also ruining it for everyone else who would prefer a game where the winner is chosen through a lottery. Equal opportunity for everyone! The honest players have never upgraded a weapon in order to gain an advantage over their opponents. They do it only because they want to fight opponents who have equipped the exact same weapon, thereby rendering the upgrade void and keeping the game fair.

My solution: make all the ships the same, make all the weapons do normally distributed random damage and make all the talents purely cosmetic. I also find it a bit unfair that some people seem to have larger screens that seem to make aiming easier. I would address this issue by turning the screen black during the battle. This would make aiming equally challenging for everyone.

Good games my brothers!

 

You can search my posts on this .. but, yeah, that's what I thought.

Each week, the BB devs put in more and more anti-sealclubbing measures to prevent people from manipulating their gear score.

The issue with it is that sometimes people get hit with these anti-sealclubbing measures when they are simply using their best gear and happen to have large differences in item rarity (i.e., collateral damage).

In this case, your item level differences are putting you in games with GS manipulators .. which is why you're seeing these matchups.

If you were using all rare items or all T4 epic items, you'd see different matchups. I understand how that's difficult to do, but you have to understand how it's difficult for the game to distinguish your setup from theirs.


As far as the fairness thing goes (again) .. some people will have a lower skill level regardless of how long they play. And it is exactly the point of this thread.

You are leveling your items as quickly as you can without understanding the event repercussions. If you used all rares, you'd see different matches, so you're using higher level gear before you're able to compete against higher skilled players using a lower gear score (or at least players with a better understanding of what did well in that event).

If you look at each of those matchups, the "seal-clubbers" are using fewer weapons than you and the same amount (or fewer) high level epics.

It's a fair match on the face of things.. but it's not taking into account the individual player skill. How do you measure that without using infamy? It's not easy.

 

So you want fortnite without the skill aspect. You want the winner to randomly be chosen by lottery.

.... mmk.

 

I think he’s joking with sarcasm.

 

Lol gotcha

 

I understand completely where you are coming from. They are better players, I get that. They are in NML and I'm not. They have more experience in the game and they know how to read battles better then me. I understand all of that. I get where you are coming from but I don't think you understand my point. I never once claimed to be amazing at this game but I'm not a bad player. I showed you a losing streak because that was honestly some of the best examples all in a row out of the last 30 games or so. I didn't feel like looking for long but I can show you probably 30-40 more games in my history that showcase the seal-clubbing I'm referring to but I wont. I'll try to explain this one more time, not just for your sake but hopefully the devs will take some of this into consideration.

My issue is that the seal clubbing is easy to do at that level. Most of them are defenders so they can only use 3 weapons. The problem with that is, as a Mk7 defender using 0-2 shields they still have around the same health as me as a Mk5 defender (fully decked out with my best shields and perks) or my Mk6 shooter. The real issue arises when you look at the weapons. They have significantly better weapons then me if you actually look. a T5 Epic does A LOT more damage then my level 30 epics or my level 40 rares that I was using. This is how they dominate the battles, not just by being a better player. If they can 2-3 shot me it doesn't matter that they only have 3 weapons.

"If you look at each of those matchups, the "seal-clubbers" are using fewer weapons than you and the same amount (or fewer) high level epics." False statement, look again.

Oh by the way, captain level. You obviously didn't notice but the battles I pointed out, they are all level 50. They all have better captain training then me. That only amplifies how strong their weapons are compared to me. In most cases they have 20%-30% increased damage on training alone, not to mention the huge difference in the level of the actual weapon. If you add all the advantages that they have its obvious why they have almost double the damage of everyone else in the games.

As far as your "better understanding of what did well in that event" you are completely correct. They have a better understanding of how to manipulate their gear score in order to play with lower ranked people. Most cases I'm using the same weapons as them, they just have much much stronger ones.

This is not just an issue for me and I am not complaining only because I lost. losing is fine, it's a part of the game. I'm complaining because i shouldn't have to use shitty gear to combat the people seal clubbing. All the lower ranking people having the same issue as me should not have to complain in game all the time about events. We as a community shouldn't have to find a solution to fix what's broken. I shouldn't have to drop all my sheilds in order to play a match. The game should do that and it should be a part of the matchmaking already. Training, level, and GS can all be used in the algorithm. It's not rocket science to figure it out, it just takes some thought.

Maybe break each part of the ship into section for GS. The overall gearscore would be the same but each section would weigh a certain percent towards your matchmaking. Very rough ball park numbers could be; Weapons gs counts for 60%, shields 40% (for defenders and shooters). same thing for other ships. So if someone has all T5 Epics and no shields the game can sense that and not allow them to matchmake with that set up or play them against others doing so. If there aren't enough players then they can place them with players at their level not trying to exploit the system. Maybe break up the rewards in a different fashion so the higher GS the higher the rewards. this would deter the exploiters. Maybe take into account Captain level while matchmaking. There are literally so many solutions they just have to actually give a crap and act on it. You don't have to ban players exploiting, just have to stop them from doing it.

Here is a recap so you might take in what I'm saying. GS exploiting is killing the events for a lot of low-mid level players. Players should not have to do the same thing to get a fair match. Mk7 with T5 Epics > Mk5 with T3 epics, 50 > 40, and we all know matchmaking is broken. Player using this exploit will deny it, players getting it used on them can only say so much but they don't "pay the rent" so why listen to them?

If my point doesn't get across then I don't think it ever will so I'm done. This could all be for not and they could have already fixed it with the new events, I have no idea. i just think that seal-clubbing is wrong and should be addressed. Enjoy your battles sir, hope to see you on the bay at some point.

 

Geez mate, you salty?

 

Haha, yea... I'm getting tired of players directing their gripes in the wrong direction. The Devs need to fix the obvious holes in EventMatchmaker(tm)... because they are so obvious. It's unrealistic to lobby all the players in a competitive game to voluntarily give up an advantage they found... it's up to the Devs to make EventMatchmaker(tm) fair for everyone.

 

I understand your point. Seal-clubbing is bad and is ruining the game. The part you're not understanding is that it's not easily fixed. There is no magic wand you can waive to make it go away.



I. To their credit, the devs make more and more efforts each week - despite targeting their higher revenue players.

Some of your proposed solutions are already being used. The following, in no particular order, are the changes I've noticed (and some that have been confirmed by devs on the forum):

1) "Seal-clubbers" were using mk2-4s.

• Dev fix 1: Match according to your highest Mk ship (or match based highest Mk for your captain level).

You are just noticing this as a large issue because of this fix - when it has been a large issue at lower levels ever since events were created.

2) "Seal-clubbers" were taking advantage of GS ratings that were undervalued (T1 legendaries), mixing lower level items with higher level items, and were removing overrated perks.

• Dev fix 2: Adjusted GSs on items and perks.
• Dev fix 3: "Unusual setups" or setups that had upper tier epics mixed with rare items were matched with other unusual setups or the player's hidden gear score was adjusted higher as if they had all upper tier epic weapons.

3) Captain levels were providing added benefits that gear score did not account for.

• Dev fix 4: A hidden "Power Score" adjustment was added to account for this advantage.

As evidence of PS, the "seal-clubbers" you screenshot had a 6k to 6.8k gear score, presumably well below yours.



And, there has been progress made. Mk1-4s are no longer being hounded by max level captains.



II. However, the fixes have other issues:

1) they are made retroactively to fix last event's method of "seal-clubbing"

• Players find new ways around the fixes each week.

2) there is collateral damage for "legit" players

• You keep ignoring this point ... But, you are an example of collateral damage! See dev fix 1 and 3. Using your MK5 defender still matched you against MK6 and low GS Mk7s. As a Mk6 shooter, your item rarity and level differences trigger the anti-seal-clubbing measures, so you are matched against higher level players with similar item level differences.
• It is not only L50 players "seal-clubbing," it's players at many different levels. This is the direct result of some of your solutions.

3) Most importantly, they are attacking the wrong problem.

• If event matching and rewards were based on league, then there would be no incentive to "seal-club."
• If it was based on league alone, players would gladly drop infamy for easier event matches, so the reward scaling would have to be significant enough to keep encouraging players to push higher in infamy.

Lower-level players have an issue with the "rich getting richer" .. That is an uninformed opinion as transitioning from the max epic ceiling to legendaries would take years (under the now "old" event rewards) .. who knows how long it'll take now.

But, this is the only way to solve the issue. If Mk6 and Mk7 players are struggling for fewer coins than Mk2 ships easily get, then that is the issue that needs to be prioritized and resolved to prevent the incentive (and need) to seal-club.

As your near the level of max epics, there is nothing left for players to do other than to slowly collect legendary items ... so their rewards need to increase accordingly ... as they do in league rewards.





III. Other Solutions

I have been a strong advocate for fixing seal-clubbing for months and months .. You can search my posts. "Skill Tree v2" would assist with this, make GSs more accurate, and help the devs better balance (and expand) the game. Scaled Event Rewards was another post about this - although I've adjusted my solution slightly since then.


I previously thought of your suggested solution for weighing weapons more than other items, but 10 minutes of running numbers in excel should give you 50 ways getting around that solution, e.g., players could load up on strong blue/yellow items and use weaker weapons to still dominate weaker competition, or use defenders/enforcers/speeders/fixers with 2-3 stronger weapons than your Mk6 shooter's 5 weapons - as they are currently doing.

Then, you'll think weighing captain level more heavily than it is now is a better solution.

Until you realize that this is not Fortnite or COD, and there is a much smaller player base - and only so many players to match Mk7s with. Because Mk7 players are unwilling to wait 20 minutes for a match, and Mk4s are instantly matching, you'll be not only hurting your ad-revenue and player base, but also making the reward disparity greater between higher and lower level players (and discouraging players from training crew members and leveling up) by doing so.



Anywho, I've given you the keywords to search the forum. These issues have been around for quite a while, as have many of the proposed solutions, but the issues remain. I suspect they will only get worse next week with ticket timers .. but time will tell.

 

Btw .. I put "seal-clubbers" in quotes because I'm referring to those doing what they can to counteract a broken rewards system..

I do not believe 99% of them would choose to seal-club if they were not so heavily incentivized and encouraged to do so in order to avoid falling behind.

 

What do you mean by gear score manipulation? according to the definition of the word, what you are effectively saying is that some people somehow manage to fool the system in a way that their gear score is calculated differently from other peoples gear scores who use the identical specification. If this was the case, these players would be banned already.
The other interpretation of your expression is that you consider everyone who is not using the specification that gives them the highest possible gear score given the equipment in their possession should be declared a cheater. This of course imposes other challenges. Should you be able to evolve only your main ship? Should you be allowed to scrap an item? Or is it your destiny to float around with a fixer equipped with a legendary bandage, two sets of duct tape and a mighty fancy frost launcher while insulting your enemies with napalm? assuming that this is the setup that gives you the highest possible gear score?

Getting lucky in a lottery and getting a legendary should not give you and edge, you should be penalized for it in the name of fair game?

How gear score works? According to my knowledge, the gear score is calculated based on the items you have equipped, the rarity and the level of those items, the mark of your ship, and the perks you have equipped. I also believe I read from somewhere that it also accommodates the skill tree.

Now if the problem is the fact that some people are able to take this information and to use it to their advantage, then we should be having a different conversation. I personally am nowhere near the nightmare league, yet, I have basically no problems with them in the challenges. The reason being that, I too am able to crunch the numbers, to experiment and to see what works and what doesn’t. I’m somewhat able to adapt to the new optimization challenges stemming from the changes in the game. Does it take time to do it? Yes.

I assume that we agree that the behavior you call abusive is not black and white, it’s a gradient. And to some extent, it’s ok to use weapons that do more damage than your opponent’s weapons. Now the question is who draws the line? At what point does it turn cheating? From what I have gathered, the line would be drawn by you and I also suspect that somehow you would never see yourself on the wrong side of that line.

The problem here is not so rare in the realm of gaming, and as so often there are those two common ways to approach the issue. One: it doesn't work as I want it to work! change it! Two: I understand how it works, now I try to make the best of it.

My argument remains. If you want it to be fair for everyone, make it pure luck. Everything else can be abused either by using items that someone else doesn’t have or doesn’t know how to use. Just a big button that says fight!. The outcome should be a win or a loss with even probabilities.