Ability to fleet with those outside the 800 infamy range

I really like this idea. In fact, it should copy all of their ships, so you don't both have to play exactly the same boat, but you have to use gear they own.

 

Are fleeting quests easier at lower infamy? I would hope that they would be a wash. Fleeting gives you some "coordination" with 2/5ths of the team, which is an advantage, but 3 others doing what they will can take away any benefit. If damage is minimized (i'm ok with that trade) and ship kills and stars is neutral, I would want fleeting wins to count as well. To be clear, you would need to fleet with a guildmate for a fleeting quest to be counted.

I am strongly supporting this because as a wanna-be competitive guild, I am finding that when players leave I have to replace them with stronger and stronger members. And it is very hard to find a 2k+ infamy player who is looking for a new guild. I would take activity over infamy any day but doing so cripples our ability to do fleeting quests in rivalries.

This concept could make ALL matches fairer if it was available for smaller than 800 infamy too. I see many matches where I am 2500, my guildmate is 1800, and then our other teammates are 3200. If my guest fleet matched me with 1800, we would face a closer range of infamy players.

 

I agree, if this was in the game then recruiting lower infamy people may help them out and the guild out, the guild gets a new active player, and the new active player gets "veterans" to help with the game, and they get to fleet with. This too would make more new players stick with the game. The only part I worry about is higher level people abusing the new ability and creating lower infamy guilds with very high level people. Idk this may all work out on its own, but I think it will change the dynamics of midrange guilds if fleeting under 800 still gives full points to quests.

 

I'd love to be able to play with my son without a ton of infamy shedding. It'd be great to, in some way, nerf my account down to his level.

 

What level of downgrade would be considered 'fair'? This is a question that will be much pondered on if this idea gets considered to be implemented. After all, it can be pretty chaotic with mk2s or even mk1s fighting the mk5s below 1000 infamy. If I decide to fleet with a around 500 infamy friend, how far should my gear and ship be downgraded? To the level of it when I was at that level? Seems fair but there are two problems I immediately see: 1. What if I changed ship at some point in time? Like in the past I used to only play shooter, but now I play speeder and enforcer while my shooter is just collecting dust in my shipyard. Should I be 'forced' to play shooter if I fleet with that friend? 2. Skills can't be downgraded. How would you downgrade skills? Nerfing the agility or other ship stats? Making your weapons a lot worse than the average person there to 'pay back' for your skills? Just one look at that those questions and we know that that is not going to be fair. There is no proper solution. In conclusion, I do not agree with this idea because there will never be a straightforward or even any possible way to make such matches fair.

 

The idea is that the majority want it to be possible, so I think we should focus on how we can make it possible rather than why it can't. You have some valid points, so we should discuss what could be done to get around them. Maybe greater infamy differences could result in your "balancing" giving you slightly weaker equipment than your friend's? Remember, the changes are temporary, so you could play any boat and it'd be downgraded accordingly, you wouldn't necessarily have to use a ship you left collecting dust. Ie, I have a mk5 speeder, if I wanted to fleet with a mk2, I'd temporarily be using a mk2 speeder with slightly weaker gear than my friend's since I have more experience up at mk5. That should put you two on more-or-less even ground. As for the random mk5s chilling around the mk2-mk3 range, this can't be helped as it's already occurring. We'll have to deal with them the same way we would've had to deal with them ourselves anyway.

 

That's quite a number of points you've typed, so I'm going to try and do a point by point analysis. Essay time! (Sorry for the seemingly passive-aggressive feel to it, I really don't want to start a fight but it's just like that )


1)
"The idea is that the majority want it to be possible, so I think we should focus on how we can make it possible rather than why it can't."

The reason why I'm am bringing up points as to why this idea would not work is because of what you already mentioned: "(You have some valid points, so) we should discuss what could be done to get around them."

2)
"Maybe greater infamy differences could result in your "balancing" giving you slightly weaker equipment than your friend's?"

There is a problem with doing this as mentioned in my above post. How much weaker should your equipment be? It's hard to find the perfect solution for this as skills and experiences cannot be measured. We can only make a guess at the level of equipment that will make things fair, but whatever solution we come up with will still be more fair towards some people than others (unless we can read people's minds ).

3a)
"Remember, the changes are temporary, so you could play any boat and it'd be downgraded accordingly,"

Yes, I understood that.

3b)
"you wouldn't necessarily have to use a ship you left collecting dust."

I think you misunderstood (I was rushing to type that comment during my break), I was trying to rebut a possible solution to the question of 'How much weaker should your equipment be?'.
The solution I suggested is to downgrade the equipment "To the level of it when I was at that level". (e.g. If I had a tier 2 uncommon blast cannon back then, I would enter the match with the tier 2 uncommon blast cannon.)
So I rebutted the above solution with the question "What if I changed ship at some point in time?", because if I used to play shooter and not speeder, I would not have any gear for playing speeder if I want to play it now.

5)
"Ie, I have a mk5 speeder, if I wanted to fleet with a mk2, I'd temporarily be using a mk2 speeder with slightly weaker gear than my friend's since I have more experience up at mk5. That should put you two on more-or-less even ground."

Refer to point 2.


6)
"As for the random mk5s chilling around the mk2-mk3 range, this can't be helped as it's already occurring. We'll have to deal with them the same way we would've had to deal with them ourselves anyway."

Let's say I was an mk5 at 500 infamy, and an mk2-3 at 200-300 infamy. (Very creative example there) If I want to fleet with my mk3 friend at 500 infamy, what mk level ship would I be? Same goes for if I was an mk1 there. But if I was also an mk2-3, then I totally agree with your point, since fleeting with that friend means I also chose/agreed to be in, and experience that environment.

Phew that was a lot! Hope you understand what I'm trying to say, my phrasing for certain points isn't very good

 

There will be no "perfect solution" since everyones skill varies, but if you lower the level of equipment by, let's say 6 levels, this will be a counter to the extra "skill" a person may bring to lower infamies. I would argue that this is adequate and that if implemented it should error on the side of disadvantage. If it is slightly errored on the side of disadvantage for the guest player then the overall benefit will be positive since the ability to fleet with any of your friends/guildmates will increase interest in the game.

That is a flaw in your suggestion. If you wish the downgrading to work like that then the devs, if they have this data, could bring your equipment down to your average rarity and average level at that infamy (maybe data from end of seasons?). So any new items you have would just be at the same point even if you never used them at that infamy. Same for ships. Although I think it would work better with a downgrade to your fleetmates levels and rarity.

If you are within the 800 infamy range then fleeting would be the same as now. So if your a mk5 at 500 infamy and you want to fleet with your mk3 500 infamy friend then no guest mode is entered and you play with your own gear. This is how it is now. Only outside of the 800 mark do the special rules apply.

 

I absolutely agree with this, there is no one size fits all. But 6 levels may not be enough, or it may be too much (assuming everyone has about the same skill), depending on infamy and the rarity of the item. There still needs to be more research, observations etc before an accurate and equal system will be created.

Exactly, I was rebutting a possible counter argument to support my point. But yes, changing your equipment to slightly worse than average would work, just that how much downgrading is the question.

I'm saying, if I used to be an mk5 at 500 infamy. (FYI, 1. I crossed the 500 infamy mark long before I gained an mk5 ship 2. I am around 2000+ infamy) So, my point is that if I want to fleet with that friend who has a mk2-3 ship at 500 infamy and if I was around 500 infamy from mk3-5, what mk level should I be?