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Relationship Between Infamy and the Number of New Players Starting Game

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by YerJokinArnYer, 20 Mar 2018.

  1. YerJokinArnYer

    YerJokinArnYer MVP

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    Ok, not really a thread for discussion, more a thread for people to think about. (Though you are all free to comment or disagree with me if you wish)
    After reading multiple threads on infamy, and where infamy actually comes from, it made me think.
    And the conclusion that I reached was that the skill/weapon level to reach a given infamy level will change dependent upon the number of new players entering the game.
    Imagine if you’re a new player who’s been playing about a month. If lots of brand new players join in the month after, you will be stronger than them, and (all things being equal) so will rise in infamy.
    If hardly any players join, you will have fewer players who are weaker than you, and so you will struggle to maintain infamy or could even lose infamy.
    In either case, the player is equally as “skilled” but would have a different infamy based upon the number of new players entering the game.
    This infamy variation would ripple up through to the higher skill levels too.

    So basically, I’m saying that reaching any particular infamy point can become easier or harder over time dependent upon the number of new players entering the game.
    Following that thought on, the players who were playing pre-global launch must have experienced a big infamy boost in the weeks after global launch.
    And finally, if you want to increase your infamy, one of the things you can do is encourage lots of your friends to play the game. (Ok, I know that this would have a tiny effect, but if enough people did it......).

    And because nightmare players get reset to 4000 infamy every two weeks, infamy is basically a great big Ponzi/pyramid scheme that is reliant upon new players entering the game.
     
    Rainbow Warrior, Ian, *JAWS* and 2 others like this.
  2. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe Moon's haunted

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    Fascinating.
    /SPOCK
    Definately food for thought. However there are always gonna be players who plain suck at the game, so I guess not so accurate? Idk.
     
    YerJokinArnYer likes this.
  3. CaffeinatedChris

    CaffeinatedChris MVP

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    Yes, this has been discussed in the past on this forum to great extent. Nightmare also used to be at 3500, and it has since been pushed to 4000. Perhaps it's time to talk seriously about raising that limit again, or creating sub-leagues or multiple reset points in Nightmare?

     
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  4. YerJokinArnYer

    YerJokinArnYer MVP

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    Yes, I read all those posts, and I found it very interesting (where infamy comes from, and where it goes - and indeed these are the conversations I referred to in my opening paragraphs).
    What (I hope) I add, to build upon those previous conversations, is that the strength/skill needed to reach a certain infamy level will change over time (depending upon how many players continue to join).
    This may be one possible explanation about why some players feel that they’re upgrading their boat but not gaining any infamy. (Obviously other explanations are available - luck, not playing enough, playing just after nightmare reset etc).
     
  5. YerJokinArnYer

    YerJokinArnYer MVP

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    Sounds like a great topic for discussion, but (tongue in cheek) on you’re own thread please :)
     
    CaffeinatedChris likes this.
  6. xxxBISMARCKxxx

    xxxBISMARCKxxx Well-Known Member

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    Rovio is not going to give you any information about the # of new users joining & bring retained, though.
     
  7. Rainbow Warrior

    Rainbow Warrior Well-Known Member

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    What if they diminish the amount of infamy on each league, create new ones and then reset every league on the season ending?
    There would probably going to be different problems that I didn't think about lol but seems a little funnier than the current infamy ladder :D
    Guys, players under 4000 also get reseted to 4000 infamy points if their maximum infamy was higher than that. What also create new infamy, today. I just don't think it equals the losses.
     
  8. Ian

    Ian Well-Known Member

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    Yep, and this is why infamy is always technically easiest to gain at the later end of seasons.
     
  9. Kalbs

    Kalbs Well-Known Member

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    Great post!
     
  10. CaffeinatedChris

    CaffeinatedChris MVP

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    The reset does not work "upwards" - players with an infamy below 4000 at the end of the season do not get a free "uplift" but they do remain in Nightmare.
     
  11. Rainbow Warrior

    Rainbow Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Oops, sorry, I thought it did. My bad :D
     
  12. CaffeinatedChris

    CaffeinatedChris MVP

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    Think about it; If it worked that way, being promoted to Nightmare would be permanent. Every season you're reset to 4000. Which means even if you lose every game, you've still had a "peak infamy" of 4000. So you get reset to 4K and go back to Nightmare. :p
     
  13. Snapshot

    Snapshot Well-Known Member

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    OK, so I'm making my brain boil trying to envision this. It seems to me that a steady stream of new players will, as you say, tend to put upwards infamy pressure on existing players. But now extend that further. Their infamy will now stabilize at some new point but it'll be the point of stability between the upwards pressure and the downwards pressure of people competing against them. Some of those new players will be strong competitors diluting this effect more.

    More interesting is where does infamy come from to start with. If you imagine a pool of players and they have a certain amount of infamy, a new player enters this pool with nearly zero. He got some "free" infamy from bots but that's it. Since it's mostly a zero sum game (I win, you lose) then looking at it that way every new player ought to be reducing the overall average infamy. So how do we get new infamy anyway other than bot battles? Put more personally, let's say I graduated out of bot land with 200 infamy. I know have 2000 infamy. Didn't I have to take that infamy from the rest of the player pool?
     
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  14. Ian

    Ian Well-Known Member

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    As new players beat bots and gain infamy, they will play against real players who are likely better than them. Because of this, those other players will also rise a bit from beating the new players. Then players a bit better than those guys will rise a bit as well, etc. At least that's my best guess. Starts from the bottom and eventually reaches the top.
     
    YerJokinArnYer likes this.
  15. Miathan

    Miathan Well-Known Member

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    Your assuming here that once "graduating" out of bot land, you can't go back, and therefore every new player contributes only a certain, capped amount of infamy to the game (200 ish). I have never dropped down far enough to know for sure, but it seems far more likely to me that players who are 50 infamy above bot land and lose 50 infamy will once again get matched against bots. That way, there's a constant supply of infamy at the low end of the game to counter the losses at the high end when Nightmare gets reset.
     
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  16. Snapshot

    Snapshot Well-Known Member

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    Actually I wasn't assuming that. I fell back into bot land once or twice briefly myself. Still though it's hard to stay there and pointless to do so even if you're a dedicated infamy tanker. It's not like those M1 boats are any easier to kill than the ones that are live crewed. But reasonably I just don't see that adding a whole lot of infamy into the system.

    I'm wondering where else infamy comes from because that doesn't seem much in the face of them lopping off such a significant chunk every two weeks. I see one relatively small infamy source and one infamy sink of unknown magnitude (the nightmare reset). I'm wondering what else there is.
     
  17. CaffeinatedChris

    CaffeinatedChris MVP

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    Nope, you've got it. As I mentioned before:

    By that same rule, if the team with the lower human player count (1v2) wins, infamy is also lost there (because two players lose -24, one player gains +24) but on a much smaller scale than the Nightmare haircut.
     

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