Lets talk defender buff. Concrete numbers. No bs.

Alright, we all know defender is the worst ship right now after their main weapon nerf and also the fact that ship hasn't received any love since pretty much ever (I started at global so idk about beta). Everyone's trying to give suggestions about turret/agility/speed buff but I'm not suggesting any of it. I'm gonna suggest a way that makes lubes and rudders more desirable and allow devs to ....idk.. make more money off selling epic lubes and rudders. It's pretty simple. Defender is the only non yellow boat besides shooter and its time it receives shooter treatment.
MAKE IT 5RRR 7BBBBB.
Now before everyone goes crazy screaming "TOO OP4ME", we're gonna attend a maths class to find out how op it actually is.Whats the best thing you can use that extra slot point for? Second big shield correct. Here's one below. (I'm gonna talk in terms of rare items and rare perks because all combinations are too much to cover).
Calculation time:
(636+100+300) X 1.4 = 1450
(1450 / 1.4) - 400 = 636
(1738 / 1.4) - 400 = 841 (LEVEL 50 BASE) WE'LL NEED IT LATER.

Same deal with standard shield with standard shield I have level 50 so no need for calculations.

So now we can see changing one standard shield to second bid shield will only provide (1738 - 1221) = 517 hp. Which is not so much from hp buffs other ships have received in the past. This is exactly same as 517 BASE ship hp buff since all shield hps are added before the ship hp multiplier. So people going all shields will have 517 more hp but have to put up with same old slow ship attributes and to be honest no one needs 517 defender hp buff. Like we're all dying for 500 hit points on top of our 15k hp. Nah.

Here's my epic big shield and level 40 big shield is at 1134 hp.

AND THE WAY IT ALL COMES TOGETHER.
BASE: 5000
SHIELDS: (1221+1134+2117) = 4472 (4473 in game because rounding decimals)
(5000 + 4473 + 325) x 1.4 = 13717.2 (13718 because decimals)

SO WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR THEN?
Simple. It allows defenders to drop standard shields in favor of lubes and rudders without sacrificing much hp thanks to double big shields. Defenders can go BIG/BIG/LUBE/RUDDER/TURBO or BIG/BIG/RUDDER/BANDAGE/TURBO or whatever else and we've already established that Going BIG/BIG/ST/ST/TURBO will only net gain in somewhere around 500 hp at the cost of terrible attributes.
SO HOW GOOD ARE THEY GOING TO BE?
Now we can make pretty accurate prediction what hp they're going to end up at with double big shields, lube, rudder etc. We already know all shields (big.big, st,st, turbo) will end up roughly +500 to 550 hp more than conventional standard shield stacks. We'll find out where double big will end up and (big big st, ?, turbo) will be somewhere in the middle so who cares. Keep in mind I'm an average level 40 defender main so it's pretty accurate where you'll end up when you get mk6.
TALENTS:
I'm going to assume double big users without standard shields will have all big shield talents so I'm going change my Brock level 7 and 17 to 5% big shield in my calculations.
Base: 841, Crew: (100 - 50)+ 40%+10%, Perks: 300
Total: (841 + 50+ 300) x 1.5 = 1786 (RARE LEVEL 50)
LEVEL 40 CURRENT:
AVERAGE MK6 WITH BIG, STANDARD, STANDARD, STANDARD,TURBO (BROCK 7,17 TO +25 ALL SHIELD HP)
(5000 + 325 + 1738 + 1221+ 1221+1221) X 1.4 = 15016

LEVEL 40 SUGGESTED:
AVERAGE MK6 WITH BIG,BIG, LUBE, RUDDER, TURBO (BROCK 7,17 TO + 5% BIG SHIELD HP)
(5000 + 325 + 1786 + 1786) X 1.4 = 12455
AVERAGE MK6 WITH BIG, BIG, STANDARD,STANDARD, TURBO (BROCK 7,17 TO +25 ALL SHIELD HP)
(5000 + 325 + 1738 + 1738 + 1221 + 1221) X 1.4 = 15740
(15740 - 15016)/1.4 = 517 (Same base hp buff calculated before)
AVERAGE MK6 WITH BIG, BIG ,STANDARD,LUBE OR RUDDER,TURBO (BROCK 7,17 TO +25 ALL SHIELD HP)
Somewhere in between.

Well, now that I'm done with all this. I think it's pretty safe to say adding another blue point to defender is reasonable buff and IT'S NOT GOING THE END THE WORLD OR ANYTHING. Best case It'll add 500-550 base hp buff to defenders but it will make defenders more flexible towards using gear lubes or rudders without hindering it's ability to tank damage. 12k hp defenders aren't that hard to kill and I'd argue that they're the easiest since they're big and slow (and running nerfed ex cannons lol). What do you guys think? I don"t know many main defenders here so I'm gonna call you @*JAWS* to have a look and give some input and call my man @Mr Meaner here cuz I'm dropping free slot points for defenders here and shoutout to @P0rthos to come here and be jelly of my defender.

 

Add @Miika @Zeus @The Grim Repair @Pinecone @SirCornedBeef @KilledWhale because this idea is lit.

 

Hmmm
I don’t think defender is a bad boat, but i have only been at the receiving end of mk6 and 7 hp monsters. If defender sneaks up the right way, there’s no stopping it especially if it has backup. But this would be better buff than basic turret or turning speed increase.

 

It should've been like this from the start lol. Defenders would have so much more flexibility in their loadouts.

 

The 500-500 is the difference in shield HP increase which when reflected in the actual boat HP calculations would result in around 750-800 HP increase.

 

Agreed, almost all other ships can equip a single big shield, so a defender (being a defender) should be able to equip 2 big shields without sacrificing an extra empty slot for it. If defenders do get an extra slot point, I suggest the devs create a 2 slot point Big Bandage to further diversify defender loadouts.

 

this is way too confusing. Make a version for younger people

 

I'm with ya, bro. Looks like you put a lot of thought in this. Imho, 500 hp shouldn't be a big deal, but allowing some versatility would help out. Let's show a little love to the minority. The fact the we are the minority, though, probably means this will never happen.

 

Add another blue slot point so you can use another big shield. This leaves you with the ability to use more different items without sacrificing hp.

 

Let me start right out by saying I don't play a defender. In addition I've only really played with them up to M5 and the odd M6. So take this observation with a grain of salt.

Just mapping the role of a defender into classic combat theory it seems like it ought to obviously fit the role of a tank. That is to say, it's job is to get hit and absorb damage that other, more fragile but harder hitting boats can't afford to soak up. Something, somewhere is wrong because I never see defenders doing this. My own personal guesses are that they have insufficient damage mitigation to actually absorb anything and insufficient speed to be in the front of anywhere. Whatever needs to change, I'd like my tanks to start tanking.

If I idly toy with "what if I had designed the game" armchair scenarios, I'd like to see defenders get another slot color and I'd like to see it contain damage mitigation items. Off the cuff:

• Kinetic Shield: Absorbs between X% and Y% of any damage received depending on the item level -- effects only the defender. This is a permanent effect like the big shield.
• Deflection Shield: Deflects any incoming projectiles including torps and mines by "pushing" them. For mobile projectiles this will change their trajectory by an amount dependent on the level of the shield. Like tesla shield but bigger area (somewhat bigger).
• Magnetic Shield: Does the reverse of deflection shield. Draws enemy projectiles (including mines) towards the defender and (hopefully) away from team mates.
• Damage Siphon: Target a friendly boat and for some amount of time take any damage to them as damage to yourself. I'd like to see this as a targeted bolt like a healing bolt. That way if you want to save that little speeder out there you have to be good.
• Phase Shield: Makes the defender totally immune to damage for X seconds depending on item level. This one would need a Looooooong (off the cuff... 60 seconds?) recycle time but would allow for strategic brief moments of tanking glory. It's interaction with damage siphon for a skilled player could be really interesting.

None of those are really well thought out but in general that's the sort of thing I'd like to see. I want to see defenders be weak damage dealers but awesome... well... defenders. Right now they don't seem to have much in the way of toolset to defend with.

 

One more blue slot would help but one yellow would be better!!!!! Lol
All kidding aside a speed boost and just a bit of turning and turrent buff would suite me but i wont turn down another blue slot. Especially since my EC is more of a hope I don't die before my cooldown lets me get another shot now!


Turkett

 

Good thought all here

Please also support my other thread for Buffing defender. Over their i gave upping attributes as 1st choice.

But obviously we all know something needs to change. It isnt behaving as the role of a tank. A tank that cant win a 1vs1 verse any of the other boats. Is pathetic. And not tank like. So is more h.p. the answer. Could be. I will add the added shield idea to my thread also.

 

Defenders need to be buffed obviously, I barely see defenders and I hear they get rarer as they go along. There is no point of 15k hp if everyone including the fixers can just shoot u and blow ur life down. A blue slot might work, but teh most people would just be senseless and go for the extra life. Thta is the risk with that one extra slot. Changes to base stuff could work better as it makes all defenders better and does not give some people one-slot too many.

 

I totally agree to this subject as I have always been a defender since day 1. After all these updates and no enhancements done to the “defender” ship I have been obliged to switch to shooter and sometimes fixer. All the other ships, although not having as much hp as the defender, have numerous advantages over the defender either with buffs or suitable gear to avoid the damage done by the defender which in return made it the least popular ship atm. Hoping that devs would talk this subject into thought and enhancing abilities! Thanks.

 

@Miika @Dmg don @The Grim Repair

This poster Is saying the truth. Most great defenders I knew going thru the ranks abandoned the boat.
Grey Storm anyone? Remember when he only played defender. Made YouTube stream after YouTube stream. He Won't hardly be caught dead in his defender now
Servtek doesn't use his. Portos retired.
Yampa hardly uses his.
Majority of even defender who use it now play other boats to raise infamy. STYX as example and then plays 1/7th of their matches as Defender.
So the Defender only player is dying. Needs a buff. This boat is imbalance as is to other boats. Being a human meat shield is not that fun. Being a tank is more fun. Lets fix it devs.

Link to other good forum ideas.
https://forum.battlebay.net/threads...-enforcers-fixes-suggested.16843/#post-101956

 

Let's be honest, none of Devs actually play defender. They're still under this delusion that defender must be op in late game because it's strong in early game. I hope one of them wakes up and try it against other mk6 for once.

 

You were talking about me?