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How to compare players - Infamy / Matchmaking Solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by benguin8, 13 Mar 2019.

  1. benguin8

    benguin8 Well-Known Member

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    I started replying the the thread https://forum.battlebay.net/threads...ining-infamy-is-impossible.24630/#post-201212 but my response started to form a new concept I thought needed its own thread. The gist of the thread was how the infamy system is flawed and not useful. As much as I hate dozens of quantifiers (gear score and infamy and captain level) they all have some purpose. The key is how to roll those together to come up with a defining single value to fairly compare players for rewards as well as matchmaking.

    Infamy, while a flawed system, is currently the best way to rank season performance. Gear score is just how good your gear is, which could just mean $$ and not skill. Number of wins is available but that is just a matter of how much you play, not how good you are. Captain level is ok, but progress in inevitable and I got to level 50 way faster than infamy 3000. So again there is just a time factor there. Infamy is linked to some good rewards in seasons (finally) and getting rid of it should not be an option. Infamy can still be an evaluation of wins vs losses.

    Perhaps the closest we will get is to factor in ALL of the above. Some formula that multiplies your Captain level, with gear score, with number of wins, with infamy. Each can be weighted according to importance. THAT number is used for seasons ranking and . Lets come up with one. I consider myself to be a slightly above average gamer, not by skill, but based on commitment, trajectory, leveling etc. So I will use my experience as the basis. Some players will outperform me and some not. So its a good start. Lets call this global stat your Game Reputation or Rep for short.

    -Captain level - easy enough. 1 to 50. Took about a year to get lv 50.
    -Gear score - score of your ship and what's equipped? all ships and gear? Not sure here. Since we wish to use the REP score for matchmaking, it has to be based on what ship you have equipped. I think this works also for seasons because it is based on wins with the maximum you get during a season. So if you play with your max set up at least once, your season would be valid. Ship gear score ranges from say 2-3000 for new players, to 13000 for max epics. Max legendaries are another world for me, maybe 15000?
    -wins - I have seen some major players out there easily with 50k+ wins. I have a lowly 10k after 1.5 years.
    -Infamy - we know it goes from 0 to infinity (realistically with the reset in the 6k range). I wont rehash the leagues here. Basically the game tells us that >1k new, >2k good >3k average, >4k master >5k expert. Please note this new system will likely require adjusting the current leagues!

    So of these 4, only infamy has the ability to go down as you progress. So I will consider it to be most important in how good a player you are. Followed by Captain level, then the two numbers can can vary wildly from new player to vet, the wins and gear score. Wins can go up to infinity too so some adjustment is needed.

    A new formula would be something like this.

    REP = Infamy x 0.5 + Captain Lv x 30 + Gear score x 0.077 + (wins + 25000) x 0.014

    For my stats (2300 infamy, lv50, 73000 gear, 10k wins) my REP would be 3877 which is well over 1500k more than my current infamy but I would say more representative of where I am in the game. I was in Master 3 league for many months at 3400 infamy until a recent spiral. Yes the new REP is higher than that but this is based on MORE than just infamy.

    A veteran like YSL has stats of 5392k infamy (note I pulled stats only a few days after the season started), lv50, 14140 gear, 47k wins) equals 6297 REP. Seems appropriate for her skill level. If she had a 6k infamy, her REP would be 6600.

    This method lowers the importance of infamy without it becoming obsolete. Infamy would be worth about 1/3 of your score. So if I plummeted to infamy 0, my REP would bottom out but not hit zero, thus keeping matches fair for me and other players. My REP would drop from 3877 down to 2700 for example. A top player, could drop from 6000 rep down to a floor of say 3500.

    Basically this would stop clustering players by infamy, and allow time played and weapon levels to give a better sense of their power. You can get stronger just by grinding your way. Using REP for matchmaking makes better sense. Players could somewhat adjust their rep slightly by lowering their gear score and select lower level ships or weapons to fleet with lower rep players but it would still take into account their infamy, captain level, and number of wins.

    If others would put in their stats and see what you think, maybe I have something here!
     
    NeptuneGaming, NathanaelK and Nikkie! like this.
  2. Su-57

    Su-57 Well-Known Member

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    what is REP ? i don't understand .
     
  3. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    I think you are onto something as a rating replacement, but it's flawed as long as you are including Infamy, because ranked matches are severely flawed, and thus Infamy is flawed.
     
    Su-57 and JoshW like this.
  4. JoshW

    JoshW Well-Known Member

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    Maybe upon implementation everyone is raised to thier highest gained infamy to rebalance the scales for the new system to truely reflect a players rep.
    Players don't get worse and gear doesn't deteriorate so a player should be as effective at their highest infamy as they were when they got there.
    Obviously you will either move up or down from your highest but with infamy having less of an impact it wouldn't skew matches the way they are currently.
     
    benguin8 and Su-57 like this.
  5. benguin8

    benguin8 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. But infamy would not longer be used for matchmaking. So infamy would just be a number that is based off of +25 for wins and -25 for loses. Which is basically how lucky you are haha.
     
    Nikkie! and Su-57 like this.
  6. Su-57

    Su-57 Well-Known Member

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    true its more about luck . this game can put you in a losing strike to balance 50-50 win lose rate .
     
  7. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    Could work... wouldn't be any worse than the RNG matchmaking we have today. The reality is that there is no valid matchmaking if the spread in a single match is 50% of all the Infamy in the system. In other words, you can come up with a new number, but the match participants aren't in a close range, it's just a different form of RNG matchmaking.
     
  8. benguin8

    benguin8 Well-Known Member

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    @envylife you are correct. But the matching issue with players who are not close in range is potentially due to a diminishing player base. No new number is going to fix that. ;)
     
    Su-57 likes this.
  9. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    I can show you a number that will fix it... Marketing $$$ will fix the diminishing player base. That, and fair matchmaking.
     
    benguin8 likes this.
  10. Su-57

    Su-57 Well-Known Member

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    I have one more idea but everyone rejected it in discord . there is a game angry bird go . thats a racing game but that game have angry bird characters on carts . i suggested to use crew characters on boats . but i think what if they use serious looking angry bird characters not cartoon style but something which match with battle bay game style . then they can have angry bird name in title 'Angry Bird Battle Bay' . that name will attract more players because Angry bird name is a big brand and it will help marketing this game . but typical players don't wana change anything . but i will not mind have a character sitting on boat and firing cannons .
     
    Nikkie! likes this.
  11. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a good idea. Angry Birds is a big brand. No one has heard of Battle Bay.
     
    Su-57 likes this.
  12. TVNPryde

    TVNPryde Well-Known Member

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    I suggested this system about a year ago. I am afraid it’s too late for any new system now. Best quick solution is to remove a mode or only allow 2 active modes any any moment.

    To say ranked is flaw, it is. But the other 2 modes are much worse. The only reason people not crying about those is that no infamy involved. When there is no infamy involves, what is there to cry about? Casual has no meaning at all. It was meant as a practice mode but turn out to be a hiding place.
     
  13. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    Casual is progression without the idiocy of the ranked matchmaking system to piss you off every match like ranked.
     
  14. TVNPryde

    TVNPryde Well-Known Member

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    Can you list some pros of casual compares to ranked? I can’t seem to find any. Ranked is flaw but casual isn’t?
     
  15. envylife

    envylife Well-Known Member

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    With ranked, legit players are still to this day dealing with tanking penalties that can artificially suppress their ability to ever get back to their proper Infamy, and to try to fix it are playing hours upon hours with little to no battle rewards to try to get back up in an utterly frustrating and ultimately unfulfilling climb that's typically only alleviated after a month of waiting for the penalty to reset. It happened to me, and even after I got back half my Infamy, I made the mistake of playing ranked again, dropped a league, and lost some rewards, and again I was not happy. It's significant because with RNG matchmaking you just don't have a lot of control over your own destiny than you do with proper matchmaking of teammates and opponents close to your own Infamy, so you're just playing with luck. Like all the other RNG in the game, and I don't trust it.

    With casual you don't have to worry about the massive impact of the flawed tanking penalty, or losing league rewards. You can try out new builds without risking Infamy, and your rewards are consistent. I'm not saying matchmaking is all that better, but in a way it is because you have the control to improve matches by setting your gear score to where more players are playing, and the matches are more fair and ultimately more enjoyable. I see LOTS of NML players running low GS in casual and events for this reason.

    All this flies in the face of the progression system this game is built on, but with the low volume players caused by Rovio not advertising and devs doing things the player base didnt want, players have gone elsewhere. Some day the BB devs will have to come to the realization that the current Infamy system not only doesn't work, but can't work without a larger player base, and they'll either fix it, or the game will finally die because of it.
     
  16. bigbem

    bigbem New Member

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    [QUOTE = "benguin8, post: 201225, member: 10274"] Eu comecei a responder o tópico https://forum.battlebay.net/threads/statistically-speaking-gaining-infamy-is-impossible.24630/#post- 201212 mas a minha resposta começou a formar um novo conceito que eu pensei que precisava de seu próprio segmento. A essência do tópico era como o sistema da infâmia é falho e não é útil. Por mais que eu odeie dúzias de quantificadores (pontuação de equipamento e infâmia e nível de capitão), todos eles têm algum propósito. A chave é como juntá-los para chegar a um valor único para comparar os jogadores em troca de recompensas e matchmaking.

    Infamy, while a flawed system, is currently the best way to rank season performance. Gear score is just how good your gear is, which could just mean $$ and not skill. Number of wins is available but that is just a matter of how much you play, not how good you are. Captain level is ok, but progress in inevitable and I got to level 50 way faster than infamy 3000. So again there is just a time factor there. Infamy is linked to some good rewards in seasons (finally) and getting rid of it should not be an option. Infamy can still be an evaluation of wins vs losses.

    Perhaps the closest we will get is to factor in ALL of the above. Some formula that multiplies your Captain level, with gear score, with number of wins, with infamy. Each can be weighted according to importance. THAT number is used for seasons ranking and . Lets come up with one. I consider myself to be a slightly above average gamer, not by skill, but based on commitment, trajectory, leveling etc. So I will use my experience as the basis. Some players will outperform me and some not. So its a good start. Lets call this global stat your Game Reputation or Rep for short.

    -Captain level - easy enough. 1 to 50. Took about a year to get lv 50.
    -Gear score - score of your ship and what's equipped? all ships and gear? Not sure here. Since we wish to use the REP score for matchmaking, it has to be based on what ship you have equipped. I think this works also for seasons because it is based on wins with the maximum you get during a season. So if you play with your max set up at least once, your season would be valid. Ship gear score ranges from say 2-3000 for new players, to 13000 for max epics. Max legendaries are another world for me, maybe 15000?
    -wins - I have seen some major players out there easily with 50k+ wins. I have a lowly 10k after 1.5 years.
    -Infamy - we know it goes from 0 to infinity (realistically with the reset in the 6k range). I wont rehash the leagues here. Basically the game tells us that >1k new, >2k good >3k average, >4k master >5k expert. Please note this new system will likely require adjusting the current leagues!

    So of these 4, only infamy has the ability to go down as you progress. So I will consider it to be most important in how good a player you are. Followed by Captain level, then the two numbers can can vary wildly from new player to vet, the wins and gear score. Wins can go up to infinity too so some adjustment is needed.

    A new formula would be something like this.

    REP = Infamy x 0.5 + Captain Lv x 30 + Gear score x 0.077 + (wins + 25000) x 0.014

    For my stats (2300 infamy, lv50, 73000 gear, 10k wins) my REP would be 3877 which is well over 1500k more than my current infamy but I would say more representative of where I am in the game. I was in Master 3 league for many months at 3400 infamy until a recent spiral. Yes the new REP is higher than that but this is based on MORE than just infamy.

    A veteran like YSL has stats of 5392k infamy (note I pulled stats only a few days after the season started), lv50, 14140 gear, 47k wins) equals 6297 REP. Seems appropriate for her skill level. If she had a 6k infamy, her REP would be 6600.

    This method lowers the importance of infamy without it becoming obsolete. Infamy would be worth about 1/3 of your score. So if I plummeted to infamy 0, my REP would bottom out but not hit zero, thus keeping matches fair for me and other players. My REP would drop from 3877 down to 2700 for example. A top player, could drop from 6000 rep down to a floor of say 3500.

    Basically this would stop clustering players by infamy, and allow time played and weapon levels to give a better sense of their power. You can get stronger just by grinding your way. Using REP for matchmaking makes better sense. Players could somewhat adjust their rep slightly by lowering their gear score and select lower level ships or weapons to fleet with lower rep players but it would still take into account their infamy, captain level, and number of wins.

    Se os outros colocassem suas estatísticas e vissem o que você pensa, talvez eu tenha algo aqui! [/ QUOTE]
    Minha infâmia Não sobe porque ?? Não consigo pq
     

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