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End the draw option

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by Terry Morgan, 15 Feb 2018.

  1. noelips

    noelips Member

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    And losers lose? Are you sure you aren't just mad that someone chose to gave up everyone's guild prizes instead of fighting a battle they thought they would lose? Did you really lose a bunch a of guild prizes? You didn't have them at the start of the battle, did you? There is nothing gained or lost except for 1 point infamy. It really shouldn't be a thing looked at as something related only to a solo player's mentality.

    From a losing teams point of view a draw should be a competitive move to use against the winning team. It send's a message saying that since they can't have their full potential of rewards nor can the other team.
    It may seem cowardly and uncompetitive but it isn't at all. It doesn't really even matter what boat the player is in it's actually harder to pull off than you would think. Especially if the player intending to pull the draw is going up against more than one unfriend.
    I'm pretty certain that if the player who pulled the draw could, they would fight a rematch to prove that their team was the bettter team, that things could have been very different.

    I'm sorry that 90% of VIP doesn't believe in draws. But some of VIP believes that it's possible for nightmare league players to tank infamy. That's an absurd idea to have when nightmare league players have their infamy RESET every season. Nightmare league itself doesn't even exist. It's a 2 week long horrible dream. A literal nightmare! That's the real reason why Ace league player's have to fight them. They come down or back from the league as demonic whales that must be slayed. But to slay a nightmare you have to become a nightmare.

    No, seriously, if infamy didn't matter Nightmare league wouldn't exist'. At all. It's literally the league in which to see who can gain the most infamy. Open to everyone who wants in but only the best of the best can make it in. Guilds matter because they give players a means by which to achieve the gear or power they may need to get into Nightmare. You wouldn't care about the rewards as much if they where just a bunch common and uncommon stuff. Or a bouns round full or rare stuff.
     
  2. Terry Morgan

    Terry Morgan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he is mad. He just sees the necessity to have a definite winner to be able to advance this to a true competitive game.
     
    noelips and *JAWS* like this.
  3. PastelPiku

    PastelPiku Well-Known Member

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    How about overtime, and capture progress is twice as fast during this time.
     
  4. *JAWS*

    *JAWS* Well-Known Member

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    Not mad. Just realize the team element both for friends and unfriends. An unfriend one match ... Can become a friend the next match. My level of Olympic spirit doesn' believe in ties.
    Tries my hardest to win. And appreciates winners and losers.
    And respects rewards being given out for guild quests.

    Until the developers figure out a way to issue guild rewards for draws. ... I will advocate to end draws. And find a way to have winners.

    Let's not be happy about getting 4th place in the Olympics and not medaling.

    Let's get the gold.

    Find a solution please devs to shrink the battle field like Pubg. And to award a winner
    Running is choosing to lose.
    And running loses your opportunity to figure out the skills to win.

    I have turned an fought even 1vs3 at end. And 1vs 2s and 1vs1s that I thought I would lose.

    Something great happens when u do.
    Skills improve.
    And now I can win some of these.
    That's better than none.
    And that's better for all 9 other players involved.
    Now back to a selfish motivation to think about. Those that really want to draw. Why fight it out? Because u get more damage created. And earn a legendary weapon.

    Create damage and fight it out. Learn a new skill. Possibly win. And earn a legendary weapon. And have all boats u play for and play against happy you did.

    Awesome motivation to fight dontcha think? :)

    @The Grim Repair
     
    PastelPiku likes this.
  5. Kalbs

    Kalbs Well-Known Member

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    Nah. Part of being a better player is knowing what you can and what you can't. If I know that I will lose 1v1, I'll force a draw instead.

    Running away or hiding for a draw is not cowardly nor it is accepting a loss, it's about being logical and not being stupid or not forcing yourself doing something you can't.
     
    noelips and _devill like this.
  6. Stelmo

    Stelmo Well-Known Member

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    Many are the 3 vs 1 matches I've managed to turn into 1 vs 1 and then had to escape the defender for a draw with less than 100 hp left on my little boat.
    Saving that infamy for my team felt like a win to me.
    Of course the defender with 17000hp left wants a shrinking battleground, who wouldn't want a giveaway win? Not sure it has anything to do with Olympic spirit though;)

    Of course if there's even a chance of a win I risk it, but sometimes there isn't. I'm not going to suicide so that I'm not assumed a coward.
     
  7. PastelPiku

    PastelPiku Well-Known Member

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    If we could find a way to determine who gets their quest progress though, that'd be great. It could be a draw, but in favor of one team. Nobody gains/loses infamy, but the team in favor gets their quest progress. Anyone got ideas on how to decide which team is in favor?
     
  8. Terry Morgan

    Terry Morgan Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a point system during the match and if equal boats are left after time expires then the team with highest points wins. Points for long shots, nice shots etc. Encorporate the highlights into a scoring system to determine a winner if tied when timer expires! Alao keep point totals hidden until the decistion screen at the end of the match. So you can choose to fight or gamble that your team has more points. If not then you lose


    Turkett
     
    LimeOnMars likes this.
  9. noelips

    noelips Member

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    Win, lose or draw a persons experience will grow and their skills will develop as time goes on.

    I've had my own share of 1 vs n battles and I've won some and lost some more. I don't really care how battle ends there are some battle that I just can't win, period. But everytime I hit the battle button I tell my team (well, my phone screen) and myself that we are not going to lose this battle. Every time I set sail, I fully intend to pull out a draw at the very least or die trying. If my team can't win no team can. If I could, I would drag battles out to an hour or even longer just to try to create that perfect situation where in which I can make sure that victory is mine. If I can't make that happen I'm not giving the enemy an easy win or a free win. They need to REALLY work for it.

    So, I don't think that it's an awesome motivation to fight. I'm actually one of the people that like to try and find a peaceful resolution to things. If I have to fight though, I fight. If you like to fight then you should go fight. It's great to push yourself to new limits. But a limit is still a limit. You can't go beyond it. If someone recognizes that something is out of their limits you shouldn't force them to go for it still.

    Now, with all that having been said. I have thought on it for a bit and I have an alternative solution to your problem. It's super duper simple. It might not work out. But I want to pitch it anyway. Change the rewards given for how a battle normally ends. Make capturing worth more than destroying the enemy team. Reason being that capturing is a bit harder than just destroying the enemy team. That's not to say that one person can't do it alone but most maps are not what one would call capture-friendly. If a battle doesn't end in a capture the better rewards and guild prizes can go to the team that destroyed more of the other team or the team that dealt the most damage or had the most HP left or something. If battles where about capturing then "sudden death" would be around the last 40 seconds of each match. Less if more than 1 team mate is left alive on a team. Since capturing can be made impossible within that time frame, the time it takes for 1 person to capture the capture point. If it's made impossible to capture within the time limit then there will be no choice left but to duke it out.

    But maybe capturing and draws should just be removed altoghter. So everyone has to fight it out. They seem like remnants of a different game mode at times... Like there used to be a king of the hill game mode (this why the captuew points are in horrblie place) and someone one was working on a capture the flag mode or something too (5 games and both teams could still end up in a draw). But then they got cancelled and it was all left there. Then the game was released. And during this one battle everyone remembered that there was a capture point when it was too late. Or during some other battle both teams struggled to get just 1 kill.
     
    Last edited: 19 Feb 2018
    PastelPiku likes this.
  10. Banderas

    Banderas New Member

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    Outstanding suggestion and was about to write on this very same topic. Personally it is a time sucker for everyone. End the draw has my support and vote.
     
    Terry Morgan likes this.
  11. fragglelator

    fragglelator Active Member

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    I would still advocate for a draw as there is no shame in retreating if you know for sure that you will not be in a position to win. As a Fixer, I have encountered my fair share of times when i am the last ship floating and faced with another. If the other ship is also a fixer (and not Mk6 with 2 weapons), then it's fair game. But if the unfriendly is any other ship other than a Fixer, it is highly highly likely than I will be outgunned unless the unfriends health is below 500 HP and I could theoretically take them out with one shot of my Ex Cannon (and also provided my own HP is strong enough to potentially withstand a couple of hits).
    In this case, I would rather force a draw and not cause my team to lose infamy.
    I have been in matches where the last ship afloat would have been better off forcing a draw but instead chooses to charge headlong into the fray and end up being destroyed, and I have silently cursed the player for making me lose infamy.
     
    LimeOnMars, Kalbs and noelips like this.
  12. *JAWS*

    *JAWS* Well-Known Member

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    Not about shame. And I get players point of view we choose the not die option.

    The flaw here is on developers for not making a winner. And allowing draws to continue.

    Changes can be made to encourage competition.

    Developers already dock players for not competing.

    Most already know floaters get punished.

    What most here don't know....

    According to the devs themselves. They expect a player to fight as hard as they can at all times. When they dont.... I have seen those devs send pms. To offending players. And warn them to knock it off.

    The implication there is a "or else".

    This shows..the idea from developers is to Compete your hardest.

    Developers, Why not create a way to finish the game?

    The original poster (Turkett) is correct. This will never be a serious video game sport without winners. Some of us can envision a day where guild wars and team events are closely watched. No one...wants to watch a draw in that event.

    It's not players fault to take a loop hole for draw. But this loop hole is done too much. 8 percent of all matches end in a draw. If I remember right from a developer writing about this subject.

    But this isn't an infamy game anymore.
    It's a team sport now.
    The only way to salvage the original concept of the game (competition)
    is for a solution here.

    Hopefully developers you come up with one.
    Ps... I left individual developers names out of my post as to respect pls and private convos. But know you will do awesome at figuring this out.

    Best regards,

    Jaws
     
    Last edited: 20 Feb 2018
    Terry Morgan likes this.
  13. FirnenAhead

    FirnenAhead Well-Known Member

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    Lol you can't expect an non-bandage Enfo/Speeder (or a Fixer without duct tapes) with remaining 1.5k hp to defeat or even face a defender with 2 cannons with remaining 8k hp and a bandage healing him for 100 hp every 5 seconds. It wouldn't be reckless or brave, it would be just stupid.

    It's ok the way it is... complain when someone who can win doesn't go for the win, but it's not always the case.
     
    Kalbs likes this.
  14. PastelPiku

    PastelPiku Well-Known Member

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    Lot's of agreement and disagreement here. Let me just clarify for the people in disagreement. Yes, it makes more sense to avoid a fight you cannot win, but if you cannot continue, is that not defeat? This thread is about accepting defeat so everyone can move on to the next fight. Losing a little infamy isn't that big a deal, but having nobody get rewards even when victory is basically yours is upsetting.

    I think a draw should still be possible, but simply running away shouldn't be the way to end it with a draw.
     
    Terry Morgan likes this.
  15. fragglelator

    fragglelator Active Member

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    Well, the issue here is that to continue (in some circumstances) is suicide, and personally, I would rather have the team-mate be smart enough to realise that and to retreat and force a draw.

    If you are referring to guild quest rewards which basically requires you to win, then yes, I do somewhat agree. However, the argument here is still a draw is preferable to a defeat (infamy loss and all that too). Draws and ties happen – google for the Olympics bobsleigh men's team event last night where Canada and Germany tied for Gold.

    And draws happen at other levels too, here is my 0-0 draw from a couple months back where nobody made any kills.
    IMG_6324.PNG
     
  16. PastelPiku

    PastelPiku Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree. My earlier suggestion was to find that center point where in the situation of the draw, the team in favor (probably the one with more health based on %) would be the "conditional winner" and nobody earns or loses infamy (basically a draw) but the conditional winner still gets that quest progress. It's a win-win. Use the various new ideas mentioned in this thread to determine the conditional winner. If nothing happens at all, regular draw happens. So if it's gonna be a draw anyway, the players in favor still have to do something to get the quest rewards. This would also end draws that take like 2 minutes to finish off as someone with no chance of winning would just let them take the conditional win.
     
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  17. fragglelator

    fragglelator Active Member

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    Another solution would be to recognise both teams with a 50% contribution towards guild quests – that would be fair in my opinion, as both teams tried hard to win.
     
  18. PastelPiku

    PastelPiku Well-Known Member

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    Honestly a better solution lol it's fair and much more simplistic for everyone.
     
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  19. Terry Morgan

    Terry Morgan Well-Known Member

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    Thus the hidden point system may be best option. If a speeder wants to run and hide at the end then that is his option, but he will be gambling that his team has more points or he can choose to fight it out. It's a gamble to be found out at the end. Perfect wy to utilize the highlights as points rather than just usless beeps,dings and badges athe the end of the match! Make them count for something at least!
     
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  20. HARPO!

    HARPO! Well-Known Member

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    I don’t like this, a speeders speed is his advantage over everything, and they probably have very low health. Running is a very good tactic. Plus, people wanna increase their infamy, not loose it, so a tie prevents that hugs drop. Running away also gives back the speeders health, if they have a bandage.
     

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