1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hey please check out our new forum Suggestions and Ideas found in the area "The Bay" - as we love all your ideas and want to collect them in one place, - please use it going forward. :) Thanks already for helping to make Battle Bay an even better experience. Remember: If your idea already exists - simply add your comment or like to an existing one so we avoid duplicates.
    Dismiss Notice

Defense points and carronade perks rework (with poll)

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by Joey who, 30 Nov 2017.

?

Good idea(s) or not?

  1. Yes

    35.3%
  2. No

    47.1%
  3. Just the first suggestion

    17.6%
  4. Just the second suggestion

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Joey who

    Joey who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    11 Jun 2017
    Messages:
    3,724
    No TL;DR, sorry :(

    I mentioned this idea in a post but the thread went dead even when I tried bumping it. So here are my suggestions

    My first suggestion:

    My first suggestion is to introduce a defense penetration concept to the carronade.

    Carronade perks currently give you extra damage points. But they are still very weak against defense points which I feel is the reason the carronade is one of, ifnot, the most unused red item in the game. So what I am suggesting is to change the carronade damage perks to defense penetration perks.

    Uncommon carronade defense penetration perk - 5%
    Rare carronade defense penetration perk - 10%
    Epic carronade defense penetration perk - 15%

    In addition, carronades would get a base defense penetration of 10%

    In addition, a +5% defense penetration training option for level 7 swift Screenshot_2017-11-30-00-56-41-1.png
    This would leave the max defense penetration possible at 75% or 60% to most F2P players who acquire 3 epic perks.

    Now let's talk about how this defense penetration would work.

    Here's an example:

    An enemy team player has 50 defense and your carronade does 100 damage/projectile with a 75% defense penetration

    Normally your carronade would do 50 damage/projectile. (100-50=50/pjct)

    But with this new system, your carronade would do 87.5 damage. (50x0.75=37.5 | 50-37.5=12.5 | 100-12.5=87.5/pjct)


    Thank you anonymous quote, that brings me to my second suggestion:

    My second suggestion is to remove the max cap defense points a player can reach. In case you, the reader, are unaware, the max defense a player can reach before rendering the rest of his/her defense perks useless is 100. The reasoning to there being a cap of 100 defense is very much unknown. Reaching 100 defense is difficult but not rewarding; players would much rather reach a high amount of hitpoints.

    Removing the max cap on defense would make the highest amount of defense possible, for a defender, 199 (considering the player is running the obvious choice of a turbo in his/her setup)

    199 (or 200 because we like clean numbers) would be a reasonable but not a must have reason to switch from health perks to defense perks.

    200 defense would be a good indirect nerf to snipers in higher leagues, for all you in belief that sniper deserves a nerf. Why? Because when taking a sniper crit your defense points acts asif 2.5x stronger than usual. So with 200 defense, a player would take 500 less damage from a sniper than usual.

    This wouldn't be that big of a change, but may influence some players to give defense perks a try thus creating more variety in the game and would give some protection against the carronade defense penetration concept from the first suggestion in this post.

    Leave your feedback of what you think :)

     
    behumble and The Otherguy like this.
  2. The Otherguy

    The Otherguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 Jun 2017
    Messages:
    4,413
    Occupation:
    Lawn care and Maintenance
    Location:
    behind that rock over there
    Babablacksheep and TheAntiSnipe like this.
  3. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

    Joined:
    11 Jun 2017
    Messages:
    9,094
    Location:
    Classified top secret ;-)
    Both you and @CaffeinatedChris are doing a great job as MVPs! Keep it up lol. About this thread... Sorry, but TL;DR
     
    The Otherguy likes this.
  4. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

    Joined:
    11 Jun 2017
    Messages:
    9,094
    Location:
    Classified top secret ;-)
    Btw, joking on the TL;DR. I like the whole idea of armor penetration as a perk. Removes the need of a new "armor-piercing carronade" . +1.
     
    The Otherguy likes this.
  5. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

    Joined:
    11 Jun 2017
    Messages:
    9,094
    Location:
    Classified top secret ;-)
    The Otherguy likes this.
  6. CaffeinatedChris

    CaffeinatedChris MVP

    Joined:
    4 Aug 2017
    Messages:
    1,392
    @Joeyaa I'm guessing the previous thread was "Make Defense Points Better" here - https://forum.battlebay.net/threads/make-defense-points-better.14913/#post-79434 - I linked to my math post.

    I'm going to be voting no, and here's my reason:

    The Carronade itself doesn't need a rework; it's just a symptom. The root cause is the way Defense Points are currently used.

    Right now, a ship stacked with Defense is a very effective counter against Carronades, and somewhat mitigates Sniper crit damage. But ultimately, that's it. Against the vast majority of weapons that do big damage in one hit and don't rely on crits to deliver, it isn't going to be worth losing 350 ship HP in order to shave off 15 damage from a Blast Cannon shot. If you take a look at the top-ranked 25 or 50 players you won't find a single Defense perk in use.

    If Defense Points are changed to generate a flat level of "% damage resistance" and a relevant per-ship maximum (eg: 50% max damage resistance) the Carronade will receive an indirect buff, because without any additional tweaks it will no longer be flat-out stopped by a ship stacking 100 defense.

    I'll do a few hypothetical scenarios in a future post to outline how I think this could play out with varying solutions here, but while Carronade is underutilized, Defense Point perks are probably even more so. ;)
     
  7. benguin8

    benguin8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    13 Jul 2017
    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    U.S.A
    You can't call my thread that dead, the body was still warm to the touch! But this is a different topic and merits a new thread. Mine was purely about making defense perks comparable to hp perks. This is more deeply tied in to making carronade better.

    I agree that carronade and defense are directly linked, but I would want to poll people as to why they do not use it. I think defense is only one factor. Others will be close range, it only gets powerful at high levels, etc. The carronade - defense saga is blatant when discussing the Defender ship, but falls apart more when you look at other ships which have much less defense points. I like your idea of defense penetration but that will only help carronade become more popular if the defense factor is the biggest issue. I am not sure it is. Nightmare league is overloaded with speeders who have the least defense. Carronade should be #1 there and is only used by 10% (per the last meta snapshot)! People will always favor versatile weapons over niche ones. Look at any of the meta snapshots out there and carronade is just one of several on the list.

    That being said, I think having a perk for a weapon that directly combats a weakness is a good idea and I would support adding new perks based on your first idea.

    I do not think your 2nd idea needs fleshing out. First, if reaching 100 is difficult, how do you reach 200 without giving more options or increasing defense in general? 200 will act like a 50% reducer to many of the mid-damaged weapons which is extreme. 200 will only apply to defender, not other ships. Increasing the defense cap maybe going too far in the other way and sounds like mean the death of hp perks. Maybe it has merit but would need to be balanced and fleshed out more.
     
  8. Jujujuan

    Jujujuan Active Member

    Joined:
    9 Oct 2017
    Messages:
    123
    Imagine this build with defense penetration:

    All ships will be using carronade only. Like ML, carronade seems to be an end game weapon cos it have more projectiles and deals a decent amount of dmg.
    Slow + penetration = unbalanced
     
    TheAntiSnipe and The Otherguy like this.
  9. Babablacksheep

    Babablacksheep Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    27 May 2017
    Messages:
    1,505
    I dont like the Idea of carronade buff,to improve usage of defense perks
     
    Last edited: 30 Nov 2017
    Shadow Moon! likes this.
  10. behumble

    behumble Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 May 2017
    Messages:
    734
    Great ideas. Especially the indirect nerf to snipers
    Still think 200 defence is super low when considering most weapons do 1k+ dmg at nightmare, and you are considering losing thousands of hp from big shield
    Defence is just not worth it unless everyone decided to use carro or std cannon XD
     
    TheAntiSnipe and Joey who like this.
  11. a_creeper_won

    a_creeper_won Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19 Oct 2017
    Messages:
    603
    Occupation:
    Basement dweller
    Location:
    The middle of nowhere
  12. Gnu

    Gnu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2017
    Messages:
    1,008
    Occupation:
    Games
    Location:
    No U
    No wonder why

    “Carronades are supposed to do high amounts of damage”

    Does 400 on a defender


    ...



    Ok
     

Share This Page