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Defender issue

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by Grand_Paladin, 25 Oct 2018.

  1. Grand_Paladin

    Grand_Paladin Active Member

    Joined:
    14 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    55
    Hi :) ,,,
    Straight to the point ,,, after this update and after about 36k+ battles with defender out of like 38k battle , i cant play this ship anymore. I used to play defender because i liked its brutality and maybe its simplicity ,,, but after the update i have the following issues :
    1) the hp increase in defender wasnt proportional with the damage increase at the highest lvl.
    2) despite the small hit box , which i liked alot, it became more clear to me that the mobility is really a big issue, i cant understand why defender should be that slow,,, and how making it almost as fast as shooter will ruin the balance of the game ,,, i dont think so ,,, from my point of view ,, its simple ,,, blue slots instead of red slots , which give them more hp than weapons,,,, what the reason for making it that slow !!?..
    Suggested solutions :
    1) Defender should have 12 slot points like shooter, since from my point of view ,, it should be somehow shooter's rival ,,, that will allow defenders to use 2 big shields which will increase the hp of the ship, which is necessary to counter the high damage, i cant say exactly what hp lvl should defender have, and i am not sure if having 1 big shield instead of 1 small shield is enough, but i am sure it needs more hp ,,, same for the new ship (the interceptor ) btw.
    2) u cant give a defender 0 defese...lol ,,simply not right ,,,that really needs to be fixed.
    3) make defender have 1.49 speed ,,, i am sure the ship wont be op if that happened
    I play different ships ,,, and i really want the game to be balanced, , i am playing shooter atm ,, and i am enjoying it, and doing well with it, so i really dont care if someone listened to me or not,, but i love defender and want bb to be better ,, and i am writing this post to help this ship, i dont want it to be op ,,, i just want it to be balanced and i am suggesting what i think will make it balanced, out of my experience with this ship ,,, and atm i think the ship is really suffering.
     
  2. Vigoorian

    Vigoorian New Member

    Joined:
    12 Jun 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Fix the defense points, now my defender = fixer :(
     
  3. Epekka

    Epekka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    6 May 2017
    Messages:
    945
    Location:
    in the not too distant future
    I think that you're on the right track with this. The speed, however, is waaay op. Defender is supposed to be slow.
     
    TheAntiSnipe and FataMorgana88 like this.
  4. Grand_Paladin

    Grand_Paladin Active Member

    Joined:
    14 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    55
    Enforcer is supposed to have 1.41 ,, they increased it by .10 and it even has yellow slots , ob and nitro ,, which make the effect much bigger :) ,,, when i play shooter ,, i dont want to see op defenders ,,, and as i said ,,, i dont believe it will make it op, it will just balance the ship :)
     
  5. FearsomeChicken

    FearsomeChicken Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Aug 2017
    Messages:
    401
    I think defenders need a faster acceleration and torque, rather than speed. The main problem is that defenders are supposed to be in the frontline and brawling, but they accelerate so slowly making them so easy to hit and because of that any defender that stick out dies extremely fast. This is due to the nature of ladder matches, where people peek out, shoot, and retreat. Defenders are too slow to retreat, thats when a barrage of firebombs and sniper hits take it out in seconds.
     
    FataMorgana88, XQT and RACK STAR like this.
  6. Nicolas

    Nicolas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24 Nov 2017
    Messages:
    484
    First of all, I support improving defender, but there are many other ways to buff it.
    Secondly, old defense system wasn't good because it was significantly affecting low dmg weapons. I disagree with 0 defense for all ships, but this might be a temporary solution for a new defense system based on percentage: current defense perks should be replaced with percentage based defense like -0.5%, -0.8%, and -1.0%. (current defense perks are so useless).
    Similarly, each ship should have base defense percentage: (numbers are just an example to explain my point/ numbers between brackets represent maximum defense percentage with all perks)
    • Shooter: -2% (-10%)
    • Defender: -4% (-20%)
    • Enforcer: -1% (-5%)
    • Speeder: -1% (-9%)
    • Fixer: -1% (-5%)
    • Interceptor: -2% (-10%)
    I believe that this will make defense perks more appealing.

    All ships should have a limit to hp:
    • Shooter: 14000
    • Defender: 26000
    • Enforcer: 10000
    • Speeder: 11000
    • Fixer: 10000
    • Interceptor: 11000

    All weapons have approximately +10% more dmg now, and all ships have approximately +10% more hp too. However, this is unbalanced (I can explain this later). I totally disagree with more hp buff, so all weapons should be nerfed (-8% dmg).

    Now, there's no useful two slot points weapons for defenders. Most defenders are using one slot point weapons like blast..
    Solution: each ship should get a specific advantages/disadvantages for each weapon type, so it affects dmg, cooldown, projectile speed, range, duration... (the list is long, so I will explain this later too)

    I have many other things in mind, but I'm just lazy to write everything now.
    I will explain all other points later too. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: 27 Oct 2018
    wcc634 likes this.
  7. Nicolas

    Nicolas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24 Nov 2017
    Messages:
    484
    @YerJokinArnYer I think that this thread should be moved to General Discussion
     
    YerJokinArnYer likes this.
  8. EyeOfDoom

    EyeOfDoom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29 Jun 2017
    Messages:
    1,119
    Location:
    Mordor
    I love it how they keep bashing defenders every update since 2017. First you make the boat so bad to move because it's meant to be a tank and then you take away attribute that defines a tank without fixing the tradeoffs. LMAO.

    10/10 Developer logic.
     
  9. Vigoorian

    Vigoorian New Member

    Joined:
    12 Jun 2018
    Messages:
    10
    It is unfair XD
     
    RACK STAR likes this.
  10. Grand_Paladin

    Grand_Paladin Active Member

    Joined:
    14 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    55
    What hp limit, it's to easy to figure out that all ships got hp limit somehow which is the hp of the ship with leg shields,,, now defender could have about 24k hp with all leg shields, thats the 1st thing.

    Second thing ,,, something such as global dmg nerf is whole different story ,, that i dont totally agree with , many players talked with me about it,, but i dont think its the right thing to do ,,,, however this a whole different stroy, here i am talking about the issue that defender is having atm, not suggesting some modifications, and i think this should be taken seriously .after the update i have no issues with hp when i play with all ships ,, except for defender and interceptor atm. I dont know if the devs noticed the issue with defender or not,, because this is a huge update that changed many things ,, and players need some time to adapt to it ,, but i believe they will start noticing it at some point soon,, i dont think that the update is the issue ,, i just think that the update made the defender's issue more clear, there's no reason to keep the current speed of defender. and the assumption that defender will be op if it gained more speed is totally wrong.
     
  11. RACK STAR

    RACK STAR Member

    Joined:
    17 Oct 2018
    Messages:
    56
    Developers keep avoiding fixing Defender. Pop quiz from a formerly retired player....last time I was on the bay was 8 months ago. That was also the last time a defender was top 10 in Nitemare league. I learned this fact from my friends who still played. My otherdefender contemporaries like porthos and peelah retired. Some other great defenders barely play now like Elitist. And other former greats switched boats all together. If a boat is obviously never gonna be a top 10 boat since all this updates.... isn't it time this boat got a specific Buff?????
    Other boats have had specific buffs before, cough, Enforcer.
    Developers... come on.
    As a returning player. I can't even play my favorite boat (Defender)because it sucks so bad. Ther is a reason I retired before. It was all the dang nerfing of items. So, guess I will have to use Shooter and conform. Lame.

    So says Rack Stat. Aka formerly Mikey C
     
    Last edited: 26 Oct 2018
    TheAntiSnipe and FearsomeChicken like this.
  12. XQT

    XQT Member

    Joined:
    28 Jun 2018
    Messages:
    46
    Also, after the update, the defender's skin is mark 5 whereas other ships are mark 6. Even on how it looks, it lags behind the other ships. I miss the mark 7 look of the defender
     
  13. FearsomeChicken

    FearsomeChicken Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Aug 2017
    Messages:
    401
    Some say that the mk5 skin was used because it has a smaller hitbox than mk6 and 7
     
  14. Kirk

    Kirk New Member

    Joined:
    18 Oct 2018
    Messages:
    23
    Why?

    The balance is trade of fire power for health...why does speed need to be sacrificed also?
     
  15. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    417
    Defender should be like a tugboat. Powerful engine gets it moving, just not fast. Give it more torque. Make it accelerate better going up waves as well as down. Defender players know that if you try to go up a wave from a standstill that you practically move backwards and you aren't going to avoid any incoming fire.
     
    TheAntiSnipe and FearsomeChicken like this.
  16. Grand_Paladin

    Grand_Paladin Active Member

    Joined:
    14 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    55
    Hmmm ,, not really accurate i think ,, i just made it to top 10 with it 2 seasons ago ,, and i probably could've done it every season,, high infamy however is annoying because of the long waiting time ,, thats the only reason i dont push hard for infamy. Waiting 50 mins + to get a match isnt fun afterall.
    Back to the topic,, before this update they made the agility update,, and because of that they had to modify the speed of many weapons,,, that made defender more vulnerable and easier to target,,, and although they did give it a smaller hit box as we have been asking for a long time, and the the fire damage of that ship is now good because of the damage buff to all weapons. The ship now is just weak, not only because of the damage buff and projectiles speed, but because of its speed which made it a very easy target,,, doesn't matter how hp it got, not to mention the defense, this update isnt the issue ,, it just made ot clear, at least to me. And sooner or later the devs will notice the issue. I am just trying to make them notice it earlier. And what i am saying is ,unlike shooter, in defender u trade of fire power for health,, so i dont think that making it that slow is a good balancing.
     
    Kirk likes this.
  17. Agile Vanguard

    Agile Vanguard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    8 Apr 2018
    Messages:
    1,472
    Occupation:
    Random Battle Bay player and tuber.
    Location:
    In a land far far away...
    How come shooters are a more speedier, nearly same health, and has 2X more weapons than defender?
     
  18. SlayerofSergeants

    SlayerofSergeants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    417
    Last night I was noticing that I can't keep pace in turns with speeders on defender. It is nearly impossible to track them through a full speed turn.

    This was the reason I put a rudder on my ship, so I could keep pace with them during a death spiral. This was the exact reason I was vehemently against the removal of gear lube and rudder.

    On a side note, lock-on auto-disengages during these turns further complicating the maneuver.

    I'm just bitching, I honestly don't expect anything to come of my complaint. Defender is dead.
     
  19. Grand_Paladin

    Grand_Paladin Active Member

    Joined:
    14 Feb 2018
    Messages:
    55
    Lets see whats going to happen in the next update
     
    Djradnad likes this.
  20. TheAntiSnipe

    TheAntiSnipe MVP

    Joined:
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    9,116
    Location:
    Classified top secret ;-)
    Here's a solution: Give. Defender. Momentum.

    It's a juggernaut and deserves to feel like one. Sure you should be able to frost them and all that, but make it so that once a defender gains velocity, it really gains it. Frost will have less of an effect and all that.

    Speed on a defender just can't be called op lol because nothing else about it is.

    To the devs: Try playing a defender on subzero with point damage weapons. You'll LOVE it(NOT)
     
    RACK STAR likes this.

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