50% win rate

And nearly 70% of people in that thread voted "yes" to "does MM need to be fixed?" I applaud Miika for engaging customers and having a conversation about this.

But this thread wouldn't keep coming up if (a) there wasn't a problem and (b) if there was a rationale answer for it.

Saying "this is the way matchmaking is designed and it's working" isn't a rationale nor a reason for why it is actually this way.

Miika also gives contradictory information - in one thread saying there is no "fixed" matchmaking to get you to 50% and then in others admitting that's they way the system is designed and it's working as expected.

Merely saying skill comes into play doesn't make it so. Sure, it comes into play a bit. But not nearly enough for this type of game.

Constantly repeating what the system is doesn't help anyone. We all understand the system. We think it sucks and it doesn't work.

And this game WILL lose customers soon enough because of it. Enough people will figure out that there is no point in spending money.

 

I think its very much up to skill, and you can change the outcome of a battle.
Like totoro said, you get to where your gear and skill level puts you and then you hit a wall, with 50/50 win lose until something changes.
I see plenty of people spending money on this game, they do it well. The rng is a little frustrating, but the pay out to having good weapons and better ships is there.
What is "nearly enough"? You dont want to be playing against players with an equal or greater skill lvl than your own? Dont want to be challenged?
You are right it isnt fixed, its fair.
A lot of us are just waiting for a big update, one that will bring new game modes and greater purpose for guilds!

 

I'm absolutely not saying that, not even close, and I'll thank you to keep your stupid words out of my mouth.
Why do you think infamy tanking measures needed to be taken?
How do you think some f2p players get higher on the leaderboards than some with legendary gear and higher ship evo?
Just because you will win around 50% of fair matchups if you try, doesn't mean that outcome is guaranteed.

 

That's not what a 50% win rate means. Being put against equal skill levels doesn't mean a 50% chance to win. That doesn't even make sense in a team game, especially when applied to thousands of matches. A forced 50% win rate, which is exactly what this is, means the system has to actually manipulate the teams to get them looking that way. If every match had a true equal chance of winning, there would be some players with a win rate that was cleanly over 60 or 70%. Not saying skill doesn't matter, but if it was the major deciding factor, high win rates wouldn't only be happening because of "people rising fast due to legendaries" (inexact quote, but I've seen this said on the forums). Competitive players in other, popular games can achieve win rates of over 60%, without a party, against other players at their same rank.

I think what this system does is that it analyzes the win rates, gear, and infamy levels of players and puts them together in a way where higher win rates are put on a "losing" team. That team can still win if the "winning" team gets outplayed, or just floats, but they weren't predicted to win by the system. Alternatively, let's say it does have some magical way of analyzing skill. That means if you're really good, you are continuously put on a team with bad players so you can carry them. How is that good or fair?

This might be because of what @D3X said, since the way infamy is set up, your total win rate has to be positive to achieve an infamy rating above zero. After buffering your infamy a little against bots when you start the game, you can start your slow ascent upwards. You're purposely kept from rising too fast, regardless of your actual skill level, for the same reason regular gear progression is so slow. The only way to manipulate the system on your end is to either lose on purpose, so that you lose every match you were predicted to win, or be hyped up on legendaries and/or be too powerful for your infamy level, so that you win every match you were predicted to lose.

They could probably fix this problem by changing the ranking system so that performance makes a greater impact and it isn't a straight 1-to-1 give-and-take win-or-lose. Personally, I don't even really consider forced 50% to be a problem in terms of just having fun, it's just the other effects it's had on the game. Most notably, the atrocious states of the starts and ends of the game right now. New players fight bots and then roll straight into Mk 4s. Nightmares can't seem to break 5000. There's no progression at either end.

And again, I'm not saying skill doesn't matter. I'm just saying it's not going to get you to Nightmare until you have Nightmare gear, regardless of how good you think you are.

 

Is that you against me?

 

I agree with this except for the Prediction part, or the Forced part. I don't think that there's any logic placed here to force anything. Players that do well have higher infamy, and those that catch a liucky break and get carried can also rise (haven't you had like a 10 game winning streak and get way above your high?) That's proof that there's no "forcing" or "prediction" as you say there is.

Christmas and / S \ both broke 5K last season.

 

@Netsa I have a feeling you don’t understand the system. There IS no forced 50% win rate. The matchmaker isn’t manipulating anything. It’s simple logic, the only way to reach a stable infamy average is if you win as much as you lose, and that, per definition, means 50% win rate.

All that the 50% win rate therefore means, it that the system is designed in such a way that people reach stable infamy levels. In other words, it’s designed such that infamy is meaningful and can be used to compare players’ ability to win matches.

Also, you said this:

"If every match had a true equal chance of winning, there would be some players with a win rate that was cleanly over 60 or 70%."

I guess what you mean is that if it was always 50%, you'd see fluctuations both above and below 50%. What you are missing is that every time someone wins a match, that person rises in infamy, thus gets harder matchups, reducing the chance to win. That's what keeps people at 50% win rate. When you lose many matches, you get easier matchups, while when you win many, you get harder matchups. This is not some sort of system intervention to push you back to 50%. It's a natural consequence of matchmaking rating based matchmaking.

 

Everyone interprets election results as they please him.
Let me try it.
68.8% agree to change the infamy system. This means at 55 votes of 8492 forum members, there are 0.64% of the members this opinion.

What an absurd statement. Somehow it reminds of conspiracy theories and the dispute how many people have applauded the president.
And how says POTUS - so sad!

(a)This problem obviously exists only for 0.68%, see above and (b) these rationale answers are constantly ignored.

In which way is it actually? Everyone will agree with me that a game or a bet that offers a 50/50 chance of winning is a decidedly fair affair.

Perhaps a few basic knowledge in statistics are missing here to recognise a contradiction.

I'm not sure, despite constant repetition!

Who is WE, I do not, so do not speak for others!

I do not think so! A huge amount of players will figure out that this is a f2p game, where you can have fun without money.

 

Wait, is that @Excism with a common firebomb?

 

Some people will do anything for stars

 

This statement is slightly wrong too. I do agree that high level Epics and with Legendaries it's a lot easier to get into Nightmare. I really don't know what you mean by Nightmare gear, but high level Rare items can get you to Nightmare, I've seen several players do it ; Bittersteel, Eeyore, Xplosive, Floppity and myself have done it (and a lot more that I can't remember right now), majority of our items are Rare ( 7 out of my 8 items) . Skill and patience(playing lots to obtain items and skill) can overcome a lot of it, and sure we may never be at the top of the list, but we're still trying. As players with lesser gear playing with P2W whales at the same level, that's something to be proud of.

Sure my win rate is 50%, but at 3900+ infamy right now. There's is nothing I need to to say or do or even think about to prove my worth in this game or forum (ie; to prove that I'm a good player).

 

Yes sir. That is me. Good game

@Miathan I accidentally scrapped my rare firebomb the other day and missed firebomb so much, but was saving gold, that I bought a common firebomb.

Needless to say, since then I have acquired another rare firebomb through star chest so you won't be seeing me using that common firebomb anymore

 

Exactly. It works from a skill perspective for me. I have no qualms with that. I just want more to do too, especially independent of individual game play.

I really would like some kind of battlefield independent of it that let's us play as organized teams...even just a proving ground that counts for nothing would be fine.

 

If it were true that you rise to an infamy and THEN hit the wall, then good players would be over 50%. Also, once you dropped say 5-10% infamy, you would then hit a point where you win more to get back to your "level." This is not my experience.
Maybe I'm griping a bit (new to the forum, I realize this has been talked about a lot) but my experience is that the matchmaking feels like it will aggressively act to keep your win ratio just at 50%. In my case, I hovered around 19k for a week or so, and then I had a good day or two, and broke through to 2100+. I hit an overall win percentage of 51.1%. After that, I went on a streak where I only won 25% of the time, knocking me back to the low 1700's. I didn't win two matches in a row until my global win percentage dropped to 50.5%.

Back to the OP's point, if my win streak to get up to 2100 was just good luck, and my losing streak was just bad luck, then the matches really aren't as competitive as they seem, and what's the point? If, on the other hand, the matchmaking is aggressive enough to intentionally balance out win streaks with losing streaks, that doesn't seem fair either.

 

I think the infamy systems biggest problem is that many people don't seem to understand it. And they hate losing streaks...hehe.

The balancing you experience is just a byproduct of simple point ranking. You face opponents solely based on the infamy points you earn. Unless you are among the elite at the very, very top, it's really not possible to beat 50% because you face stiffer competition always when you rise due to improved skill, load out and level. I know I am repeating myself...and I don't know how to make it clearer. I apologize now for that.

I also get that some people want to see a win/loss system that only let's people play others with similar load outs and levels; but this infamy-ranked-based system is not it. It places you solely based on your infamy standing. It's not a value judgment about either system. It just is.

You can argue for a new system. And you can see why development and others like this system. And you can read why others dislike it. Maybe you can sway the "collective" mind. But the infamy does test your skill....if that is important to you.

As for me...new content please. I am tired of the matchmaking wars in the forum! lol. You can't win these, no matter what system you design. ;-)

 

Can someone please explain to me how the current infamy system rewards skill?

If an average player and the best player in this game each played 2k battles with similar load outs, what do you suppose their infamy would be at the end of the 2k battles?

I agree that skill comes into play a little bit (in that someone with higher skill can move up in infamy despite having inferior weapons), but I think the impact skill has on this game is very very low compared to others.

 

Ur funny. I'm close to 9k games played .. Swore it said 1,235 lol

 

Someone with more skill will be awarded with more infamy. That's it.

If a top player used your load out, they would be higher than you. Simply put.
Maybe 2.75K, maybe even 3K. Who knows? Because each player has their own style of play, so that player may or may not like your load out.
Experience goes a long way, because you can use that knowledge to futher tweak the weapons based on personal preference and what he knows works better in Game. Things like perks and compounded HP & damage, how to play some maps, when to go flank, it's the little things that most people don't pick up right away, that comes with experience and in turn becomes skill.

Comparing to another is very hard, and only theoretical, because even if you can find someone with a very similar load out of items, the rarity, the perks loaded and crew/captain Levels would be different, so there will be differences. As well, luck is hard to gauge, one person reaching their high can be a number of factors and who they actually play with, so unless you have the same luck and the same players and opponents, you can compare one to one. However, that's impossible since you can't create the same linear path for 2 separate accounts.

I can say this for certain, the higher up you go, skill is more evident. I'm often playing with players with MANY Legendaries or high level Epics and higher level than me. Yet, I have very similar infamy.

 

It's not precise, but you can see the players in global that are f2p versus the wallet warriors. There are vast differences in dps between them. I can even see it in my own league.

And to Dex's point, I see the same guys all the time. Most hit hard. But I know which one's I fear....and it's because they are good.

 

First of all this is a team game. If you are saying I'm skilled and I don't deserve this matchmaking then team games are not for you. Apart from individual skills the most important skill is teamwork i.e. working with different boats on your team. If there is a lack of understanding on the roles you will never win matches. I agree sometimes there are players who do stupid things. I used to think like you when i started with bb, but when I read about the comments on matchmaking from seniors in the forums I understood. To give you real life examples I'll take football. There are whales such as real madrid, barcelona, psg, manchester United and city but even then for these teams there are teams such as athletic Madrid and borrusia Dortmund who win due to skill and teamwork. I hope this helps