CTF v2 ... Don't Overreact!

TL;DR: Great Event! Don't screw it up. If changes are made to the reward distribution, they should continue to promote objective-progressing behavior.


IMO, there were some massive improvements in this version! I think it's much closer to being a polished event. It was fast-paced and fun to play.

Spoiler: Improvements

• The capture and spawn points are placed very well. (I might tweak the spawn points to the east and west map sides on Destruct 9 so that they're not directly behind the easiest to defend flag positions, but well-done otherwise).
• I did enjoy the previous version with multiple captures, but the games were way too long for the rewards given - especially in blow out losses. So, of the two, I strongly prefer the one-capture-win version.
• I also liked the reduction in match duration; one-sided matches and stalemates were no longer a huge waste of time.

However, I am a little concerned that there might be an *overreaction* to the complaints about reward distribution .. and the wrong changes might upset the balance that made this event work so well.

But, if things are to change, these are the few small tweaks that I would suggest:


Minor Issue 1:

• There is a race among teammate speeders to the flag, since the first one there is typically rewarded the highest.
• And, occasionally, a teammate will tail their team Flag Carrier - watching them take damage - in order to snatch the flag once they're sunk for the 10 coins.

Solution:

• The "Hunter," or the one tracking down the enemy flag carrier to return the flag is typically rewarded 2 coins less for completing the tougher objective (since enemy Carriers are typical accompanied by multiple Escorts).
• Reward Hunters 10 coins in a win for completing the secondary objective of returning the flag.
• This should reduce competition for the Carrier role and reduce selfish play.

*** Camping your flag shouldn't be further encouraged by rewarding players for killing the carrier within 10 feet of their flag then returning it - because it would make matches slower and longer.

So the extra coin rewards should NOT apply unless the enemy Carrier is at some minimum distance - 20% of the flag progress bar, for instance. (I suspect there is already something similar in place based on rewards). ***


Minor Issue 2:

• If a Carrier uses nitro or OB to "pass" a flag to a higher hp teammate, they often receive 1-2 fewer coins (even if they "passed" the flag in their flag circle) than if they are sunk by an unfriend or wait until their flag is returned. This leads to selfish play.
• https://replay.battlebay.net/KBDXRNWB#QGRWLZRM

Solution:

• Allow them to keep their coin reward for bringing the flag 100% of the way so players are more willing to pass the flag and track down the enemy Carrier.

Issue 3:

• (As others have posted), Fixers aren't receiving rewards for keeping a Carrier alive.

Solution:

• Fix the fixer issue. Just give them a +2 coin reward -- they could use some love.

Spoiler: Why I don't want an "overreaction" change ...

Rather than making minor adjustments for captain level training (for training actually selected) and mismatched item levels, the Power Score and item level adjustments seem to have overtaken every other factor in event MM. Gear Score is virtually worthless.

As an example, I primarily used my mk6 speeder for this event, with none of my captain training geared towards speeders or yellow items (other than all ships/all items talents) and with my best items. In solo and fleet matches, I was routinely matched with players using their main mk7 ships/items with gear scores (literally) 5500 points higher.

That said --- I'm not complaining about the difference, because I could have easily switched over to my main ship/items ... but it seems that whatever changes that were implemented to reduce seal clubbing has destroyed any opportunity for legitimate experimentation with another ship or set of items.

In other words, it was an overreaction. I don't want the same things happening to CTF.

 

*** Feel free to skip ****

The following explans the logic behind roles and how rewards are distributed (with a few suggestions for how they could improve)
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Why do I agree with the logic of the CTF reward distribution? ... and why you should too.

REWARDS:
Rewards should be used to encourage certain behavior. In CTF events and objective-type games, you want a fast-paced game over defensive stalemates, so rewards should be used to encourage objective-progressing behavior.

Spoiler: Why should fast-paced games be encouraged?

You might play an event 20 or 30 times because it's fun, but - let's be honest - the real reason we will play an event 300 times is for the coins (i.e., better perks, items, more parts). So, the ideal event match is both exciting to play, but also fast-paced enough to farm a large number of coins.

If rewards were standardized or given equal weight to defensive and objective-seeking behaviors, more players would opt towards playing the Base Defender or damage dealer role.

In this role, players can squat on their flag and easily stack up massive damage/kills against players that are less concerned with returning damage and more concerned with forwarding the objective. It's the proverbial "shooting fish in a barrel."

More defensive players and fewer Flag Carriers would increase the duration of matches, the number of draws, and decrease the number of coins you're earning (per minute and per match).

The worst examples of these games are those 4-minute draws where both sides have 4 players sitting on defense. You often earn fewer coins in those 4-minute draws than you do in 60-second action-packed losses - and correctly so.

Does increasing the number of 4-minute draws and receiving fewer coins appeal to you? If yes, then you're probably a player reliant on a p2w strategy that is hoping to increase your advantage.

ROLES:
In objective-based games, it is necessary to stagger rewards based on roles to ensure the game works as intended.

In CTF, you have 4 main roles (that a player can alternate between in a given match): Base Defender, Escort, Hunter, and Carrier.

*** I'll repeat this several times --- Can each of these roles be equally valuable? Yes. But, you simply cannot reward them all the same in objective-type games. ****

Base Defender:

• Players that camp around their flag ready to smash anything that gets close - often using mines to fortify their position.
• Objective Prevention (win reward: 6-7 coins)

Spoiler: Why?

Yes, the Base Defender can make a valuable contribution towards winning, but they should receive the lowest rewards of the winning team.

In any objective-type game, defensive players can easily stack up massive damage and kills against players that are less concerned with returning damage and more concerned with forwarding the objective. That easy damage is a reward in itself - especially if you're working towards an achievement weapon.

Encouraging more players to play this role with better rewards would slow the pace of games, increase the match duration and number of draws, and reduce the coins received (per match and per minute).

If you have 3 full-time Base Defenders on each team, the game will likely end in a draw.

Escort:

• Players that defend/fix the Flag Carrier - that should be ready to pick up a dropped flag and continue towards the capture zone.
• Objective Prevention (win reward: 7-8 coins)

Spoiler: Why?

Yes, these players are technically assisting the advancement of an objective, and, yes, it is important to repair the Carrier or pick up a dropped flag.

But, the primary role of the Escort is to defend their Carrier. And, defense, while important, has the effect of slowing games down and forcing draws - if there is too much of it. If this role was rewarded at the level of objective-completion behavior, it would encourage more Escorts.

If you have 3 full-time Escorts on each team, the game will likely end in a draw.

* Escorts can change roles to Carriers - which increases their rewards - so the coin reward range is for purely Escorting.

** This may not be exactly how the rewards were distributed in the last event, but it's the general pattern.

Hunter:

• Players that actively track down the enemy Flag Carrier in an attempt to sink them and return their flag or weaken opponent Base Defenders when there is no enemy Carrier.
• Objective Completion (win reward: 9-10 coins, assuming significant damage to Carriers and/or flag return).

Spoiler: Why?

On most CTF maps, speeders will capture the flag before it can be defended. As a win-condition, Hunters must track down the enemy Carrier and return the flag. In a typical fast-paced game, this is a full-time job with a 2nd Carrier taking over after the first is eliminated.

This active role often leaves Hunters outnumbered by the Carrier and their Escorts, as opposed to Base Defenders that typically have the advantage of numbers. This role is often sacrificing themselves in order to return the flag as quickly as possible.

This objection completion behavior should be encouraged (and rewarded) for faster matches and less selfish play.

Carrier:

• Obviously, these are players carrying the enemy flag back for capture.
• Objective Completion (win reward: 10 coins)

Spoiler: Why?

Is this the toughest job - on some maps, yes; on others, it's the easiest. So why do they get the highest rewards?

The primary win condition has to be among highest rewarded in order for these events to work properly - in matches with 3-4 random teammates.

The flag carrier has to volunteer to put a large target on their back and slowly creep across the map. If the other roles paid the same - win or lose - there would fewer willing to sacrifice themselves. If there are fewer willing to make themselves targets, games slow dramatically and dealing damage becomes more of a primary goal.

 

I totally agree, this 1 capture match was a positive step for future CTF events.
The Developers should also maybe consider a 2-Capture event. This would be worth trying out, but coin rewards should be tweaked to fixed to allow everyone to earn coins, not just flag carriers(I am a flag carrier myself).
The first event for capture the flag was way too drawn out. The matches were too long for little reward.

All in all, loving the events. Thanks Developers for constantly fixing things and getting matchmaking better each week.

 

I don't understand how a Defender and Hunter are significantly different? Their actions and goals are the same: kill enemy flag carriers. The best Defenders don't allow a flag carrier to go far, but get rewarded the least in this scenario. Poor Defenders let a risky get-away slip past then are forced to save face by turning into a Hunter, and get rewarded more? I understand where you are going... behavior modification by forcing Defenders away from base else risk less rewards, but something doesn't smell entirely right. IMO the best matches happen with truly diversified boats and roles, and you're not going to get that with 10 Speeder matches.

 

I had multiple games where we had 3+ yellow boats on my team and since I didn’t grab the flag and others were escorting I used the speed my speeder has to hunt down the enemy flag carrier. It usually led to a win if I could return the flag.

 

As I said: "This active role often leaves Hunters outnumbered by the Carrier and their Escorts, as opposed to Base Defenders that typically have the advantage of numbers. This role is often sacrificing themselves in order to return the flag as quickly as possible."

In other words, a Base Defender is camping the flag - usually setting up mines - and getting easy damage against someone more focused on the objective than returning damage, whereas, like @DrLuigiPhd said, a Hunter is chasing down the flag carrier sacrificing themselves against 1v2 or 1v3 unfriend Carrier and Escorts. This is why I suggested the 25% distance minimum (on the flag progress bar) before these extra rewards kick in.

And, as I said, each player can change roles multiple times during a match, and each role is valuable, but you have to reward objective-progressing behavior (or those willing to sacrifice themselves for the win) over "shooting fish in a barrel" defense - otherwise, it would basically turn into another TDM mode.

Moreover, I'm not suggesting that defenders receive 0 rewards. And, people are still going to play the ships they think they're best with. So, you don't have to worry about seeing all 10 speeder matches.

 

Sure. You can go from Carrier for 20 seconds, pass the flag off and become an Escort for 20 seconds, then chase down the enemy flag as a Hunter for 20 seconds.

And I think this behavior should be rewarded.