Difference between "defense" and "hitpoints"?

And again, one more "stupid" question from me.
My 3 perks in big shield + some crew bonus give me "50 defense". What does that actually mean? That every hit gets minus 50 dmg? Then it doesn't make any sense. Then it's a way better to use 3 perks with 150 hp each, right?
I just don't get it. The meaning of "defense".
Sorry, nothing in FAQ...

 

You are correct. 50 defense = 50 less damage pr hit (Strong against low damaging weapons, or weapons with projectiles, i.e. Cannon, Carronade & Missiles).
I also agree that health perks is the way to go in most cases, they give alot more than the 150hp as both talents that increase shield %hp & talents for boat %hp also works for the hp perks. The only scenario where defense might be better is with alot of healing factored in (but as a fixer, I would still prefer you having more hp than taking slightly smaller hits).

 

It will take away 50 base damage from the shot you take.

Doesn't seem like much but look at it this way...

If you take a critical hit from a sniper with the base damage of 500 damage you would take 1250 damage (500x2.5).

But with 50 defense you would take 1125 (500 - 50 = 450 x 2.5). So you take 125 less damage for every crit you take.

I would recommend adding defense perks to standard shields and health perks to big shield, personally.

 

Bottom line is that defense perks are the gift that keep on giving. It is damage that is removed from each time you get hit. HP perks are favored if you take less shots (which is the goal). So compare 4 epic def perks +9x4=36 less damage per hit, vs 4 epic hp perks 150hpx4=600hp. So for def perks to be more worthwhile you need to be hit more than 16 times in a match. (16x36=576 damage).

It is a calculation similar to one you do to figure out if bandage is more helpful than small shield.

Curious to know if any Mk6 and 7 defenders go hp or defense with perks. I have not brought myself to support defense perks given the math vs hp perks (above), but I envision a max defender with all def perks being pretty unstoppable. But at nightmare league, what good is taking off another 100 damage when weapons like torps can do several thousand.

I just can't support def perks for any class other than defender. Just doesn't make sense. And even for that class its not a clear choice.

 

Defense perks are really good actually. I have a friend who uses 2 rare standard shields with all defense perks on his fixer, made it to 5k so he lives long enough to climb acceptionally well (especially for a fixer). I do however recommend hp perks for big shields, but defense for standard shields

 

600 base, actual gain is alot more.
Defender: +58%
Small Shield: 35%
Big Shield: 50%

So a fair number to use for a comparison is 1248 (600*2.08 for a defender Big Shield) or 1158 for a small Shield in a defender.

 

Then there is NO competition for def perks! Good point.

 

It would take alot of fixing and/or bandaging anyway --- And its still burst damage that kills people (in games with fixing available), something hp perks handle alot better than def perks.

 

Defense vs. hitpoints....I think could use adjustments...Defense should change to a percentage of damage reduced I think it has a more practical/logical application in that form.
I would also dare to speculate that more hit points are better for lower tiered ships/lower tier weapons (as they have less health/dp less damage and die faster anyway) and defense is better for higher tiered ships/higher tier weapons (have more health/do more damage so reducing each hit improves longevity) <- my theory anyway.

 

Ok ok ok don’t nerf the carronade again

 

Ok

 

Wow that is just horrible. Sounds like defense should be reworked to act as a % of the damage received. Maybe balance perks and training to max it out to something like 25% for defender. Basically take def points and divide it by 4 to convert it to a %. So defender with 50 def points would reduce incoming damage by 12.5%. Perks of 36 would reduce damage by another 9%. Seems balanced given the number of +8% damage perks you can add. Cannons can add 32% with perks alone. Throw this into the idea pile @The Grim Repair

 

I don't think I mentioned the carronade....but since you brought it up....ahem,.....cough....cough...Carronade...
Oh wait I have no thoughts on the carronade...except these...I don't use it and I rarely see it in battle.
*I'm not trying to nerf the carronade...though I see how a percent of damage reduced could inadvertently nerf the carronade and any other multi-projectile weapon .....but don't you at least find defense perks a tad superfluous?
However, if they modified defense perks to be a percent of total damage...it would be a percent nerf to every weapon across the board. And perhaps weapons like the carronade would have to be boosted to compensate...
*Don't mind me I'm really just evaluating the purpose of defense perks and whether they are really worth having...if they aren't then they should be reworked to become more useful..
that's all for now

 

Well it depends how much each percentage defence it gives if it’s too high then the carronade is nerfed again.

 

Hp makes it take longer for you to go big boom-boom, while defence makes the little boom-booms hurt less.

 

They could also make changes to defense as a percentage...but grant the carronade immunity or when taking carronade damage the percentage of damage protection is less effective (say you have a 1% defense perk, but when hit by the carronade the defense perk is only .5% effective defending against the carronade). There would be ways to reach common grounds on multi projectile weapons.
Or maybe some function like a tesla shield (when it gets hit by flare gun or telsa bolt)...
When defense perks are equipped shots from a carronade can reduce the effectiveness of defense for 5 sec.

 

Carronade would get a significant buff if defense perks got changed from flat value to %'s. Right now defense is 6times more efficient against Carronade than against a Cannon, there is no % where that would not change things vastly in a positive direction for Carronades. (Outside of absurd values that would render every point damage weapon unplayable).

 

The beauty of % is that every weapon is proportionally reduced. So a 2k torpedo is reduced say 25% to 1500 then similarly a 100x5 carronade is reduced to 375! Its a win win. Flat perks are only viable against low damage weapons. Low damage weps already take the back seat to single hit, high damage weapons for several other reasons.

BTW I started a % def perk suggestion in the suggestion thread. Lets see if it gets any attention.

 

I must say.... I'm surprised so many going for HP perks vs Shield perks... Especially for defenders... I will definitely agree with this math concept as it is exactly how I thought of it.. I most certainly take many hits as a defender and many times it's more than enough for defense to be more beneficial than hp... Especially for carronades and other projectiles... I've had people blast me with carronade to do no damage