Thoughts on infamy and matchmaking...

I haven't been here very long, but I've been here long enough to know that infamy and matchmaking are hot topics. And I've read both sides of the discussion, including responses from the devs.

While I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with either system, it occurred to me that the way they interact with each other might be at the root of the issue.

The problem (I think) is that it 'feels' like you get punished either way. If you lose, then infamy punishes you, if you win, then matchmaking punishes you with tougher opponents. Yet there isn't much incentive to want to fight harder opponents, as the infamy gained or lost is always the same. I think this is reflected by the number of people deliberately dropping infamy (which is also a hot topic).

I've seen other games (for example Diablo 3) which actively encourage players to seek out higher difficulties. In Diablo, players can set the difficulty themselves, they have complete control, but the higher you set it, the greater the rewards, so it pushes people to set it as high as possible (even though they don't need to).

I think that kind of reward system is what is missing from BB. When players get matched against a higher mk ship, they should be saying "good! Here is a chance to earn higher rewards". But instead they are saying "this is unfair, I want 'fairer' (easier) matches so I don't lose infamy".

Conversely, when players lose a difficult match, they probably shouldn't be feeling punished for trying their best. But the infamy system is rather indescriminate in that respect.

I'm not saying that either system is bad or unfair. But I think the way they function 'together' makes the game feel punishing rather than rewarding.

 

The idea that getting matched against stronger players is a punishment is the players' fault and not a game flaw. It's stupid tbh. Getting stronger opponents is a good thing. Do you think real life sports people think "crap, I rose in the rankings, now I get harder matches"? They don't. They will both look forward to the challenge and be happy that they now get opponents they could learn from. People should have the same mentality in Battle Bay.

 

Would you be kind enough to elaborate on exactly how that works? For example, if you are a mk3 against all mk4s, do you get additional rewards for being an underdog?

I've seen you speak before about "the perception of fairness" Miika. And I don't think it's any secret that people do complain a lot about infamy and matchmaking. Perhaps they are just malcontents? I'm not complaining, I'm just trying to identify what it is that frustrates people.

While the rewards do go up, you can't get to the higher rewards without gaining infamy in the first place. If you have a difficult matchup, and you lose 4-5 it doesn't feel any different to losing 0-5. Your infamy goes down the same and you ultimatly lose rewards.

Even if one concedes that it's a team game, and all team members should lose the same (regardless of personal performance). The infamy loses still don't reflect team performance. Close games are treated the same as annihilations.

 

Finally someone with even mind and thoughts. Cheers

 

Is it one pot for all 10 ships? Or one pot for each team?

 

Won't that mean that if you have a weaker ship on your team, then the pot will be reduced, even if you win? (Which is less likely with a weaker ship).

Or, if you have a stronger ship, the pot will go up, even if the stronger ship is on your side?

 

The matchmaking is fine, it's as fair as possible. It's perfect, the infamy system, a little less so. It would be better if the infamy system gave 4 infamy points more (23+4=27) to the highest contributing player, 26 for the next, and so on with 23 infamy to the least contributing player. Sometimes I do terrible, get carried to higher levels only to suck even more there.

People experience huge waves of infamy (winning and losing streaks) cause they get carried and pulled down. People would be happy if it was stable and gave you 1 win and 1 loss.

It's the streaks and the huge infamy flux that frustrates people. That's what I feek is wring with it.

Another problem is according to my opinion, Rovio and it's devs seem to be thinking 1 thing but taking the game in the exact opposite location. It appears to me that They wanted to make a game that entertains people, and yet, they went out of their way to make it "fair" where you practically WILL lose half the matches which isn't really entertaining or fun but more frustrating.

And yet, it doesn't go the way of esports either. There's mk levels, captain levels, item rarity, item levels and all that stuff that doesn't synch well with "fair" at all.

Either they should go full fun or go full fair. Seems to me like they tried to mix it up and ended up half assing it both ways. Like a poorly built enforcer. Ofc that is just my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong

 

I have no issue with opponents, it's constantly being matched with people that die quickly or do effectively no damage being rewarded the same as the people doing all the work, there's no way to choose or coach team mates so it's just random that we get stuck with them and docked.

 

That a great speech.
But u have to remember that u just don't put a new athelete to run against bolt in Olympics u send Justin Gatlin out there.
At ur first day at school teacher doesn't put u in advance class.( M talking about matching mk2 with Mk4 and 5). ( U just didn't have time to build the skills )
Now about matching of guys with 3k infamy to people in 4500 infamy. Those 3k guys had time to build some skill but not that much that they have can win against 4500 guys. U have to understand that those guy have too much better equipment ( bunya or Banderas) or way more time to build Thier skills (bittersteel) they are going to kill u that's the truth of it there a difference b/w stronger and overpowered opponents.
U don't send ur state champions to compete in Olympics u just don't because u know the outcome.
Moreover people play mobile games to relax or unwind the days pressure not get more frustrated. That's why we complain a little too much about it.
U have to remember that even Michael Phelps couldn't win against great white shark sometimes skill and determination are not everything no matter how many times they race shark is going to win.

 

I agree totally, this is not like some MOBA games where only skill is involved whereby if you're better; you climb up the ladder to face more skilled opponents. Here in battlebay, besides skill, equipment power + captain trainings must be taken into account besides skills. Thus a typical pro player will beat all the opponents around his level and power, only to be forced to then fight overpowered enemies higher up. So this breeds frustration because the player is actually punished rather than rewarded for his skills.

Unlike what Miika has said, eventhough fighting bigger mk ships will give better "reward pot", but it needs to be mentioned that the underpowered player, no matter how pro he is, will deal overall less damage/contribution in the battle compared to fighting enemies at his own level. So overall reward DOES NOT improve, and that's why players are tanking matches just to get easier battles. Let's not forget that the season reward battle bonus also applies to whatever infamy the player is currently at, so players who tank will still benefit from it exactly like the non-tanking player.

 

I'm going to assume that your definition of "harder" or "tougher" opponents is people in better ships with better items?

If so, I'd challenge that assumption that better stuff means better opponents. In fact I believe the primarily infamy based matchmaking system, which aligns players who have achieved roughly the same through some form of ability, makes the game both interesting and fair.

 

The guy above me is right. The only real practical advantage an mk6 with all legendaries has over an mk4 with all rares when at the same infamy is that people tend to give up on the game before it even starts while enemies are often more fired up, giving the opponents a huge psychological advantage.

If somebody has a higher tier ship and high level rarity weapons and still in the same infamy as you, his/her skills suck while your are better.

If you truly are skillful enough then you should be able to beat them after all power isn't everything. Also note that people are not thrown from one league to another, they are made to climb 24 points at a time so theu should be able to adapt easily.

 

You're making a false comparison here. A 3k player is never matched against a 4.5k player. A TEAM with a 3k player is matched against a TEAM with a 4.5k player, in such a way that the total infamies of each team are close to each other. That's an entirely different thing, and such matches are perfectly possible to win for the 3k player.

 

I'd be inclined to agree if infamy were a measure of ability, but it's actually a mishmash of equipment, mk, crew level, and your recent string of luck.

 

Yep and your ability to take advantage of those things.

 

it's not a math problem that we take average and it's good on both side the lets assume according to u both teams avg infamy evens out( approx).
First it must mean that 4.5k+ and 3k a infamy guy are on the same team or all 4 members of team that contain 3k guy are really high as compared to other members of the opposite team ( which almost never happens system usually works like this either all 3k infamy people get 4.5k guy or vice versa) now continuing the sports analogy u don't make a college basketball player play in NBA because u know he will the Achilles heel of the team ( all the other team focuses on low a health player 3k guy and takes him out first making a significant drop in firepower on the team)or the other way round u just don't make Michael Jordan play the college matches because he will overpower the other team it's true.
( People like bunta one or 2shot the low infamy boats) anyway a picture would explain this a lot better
That's alteast 1500 team infamy difference right there. So as much I hate to say this but my comparison was right from the start and this is what people complain about.
And u never made a pt about the newbie getting matched against Mk4 and 5 's was my comparison wrong there too?.

 

And while we are here on the topic of matchmaking I posted a thread on thrusday too about this and I can't find it somebody might have took it down (don't know why it doesn't contained any abusing name-calling or repetitive content). Anyway here it is
All I wanted to know was why am i at 1000+ infamy guy is matched up against a 119 infamy guy because the way game works is that at 119 the player is usually matched against bots and secondly there isn't a much difference in infamy while matchmaking at lower infamy lvls( below 1500) then why did this happen?
Was it just a glitch?
PS: this guy was banned after I posted my thread I know that because he hasn't played a single game in days