League rewards - Event rewards

Infamy should be a more stable number because it is supposed to be the primary input into matchmaking. Does it make sense for a 3700 Infamy player to be playing 3700 Infamy matches one day and the next to be competing with players who were 5500 Infamy higher just the day before? An unstable Matchmaking system results in frustration.

In your scenario, without a NML reset we very well may see 2000's now stabilize at 2500 and 3000 stabilize at 3750, and as such they would be matched against true 2500's and true 3750's... and the Infamy system starts working again. Right now the area between 2500-4500 is a mess. I was 3300 a few weeks ago, but now at 2500 largely due to a NML Reset (me), and spending efforts on Events instead of climbing Infamy. At the same time Matchmaker(tm) alternates my matches between similar Infamy players and mixing in players at 900+ Infamy higher. In other words, at 2500 Infamy I'm seeing a lot of MK7's with maxed out items which are, or were NML players. Climbing Infamy in mixed matches with such a spread is fairly random as it relies on Matchmaker(tm)'s balancing algorithm.

Yesterday I was losing battle after battle getting destroyed by unusually heavy weapons before I realized the season had just ended the day before. Then magically I started winning match after match. The current system is best described as schizophrenic lacking a proper player rating system, and no end in sight.

 

To clarify: Infamy reset isn't the major issue. If we reset the infamy to 4500, then we will face the same problem in couple months. Nightmare players will ask to change it from 4500 to 5000. Infamy system should be reorganized. Maybe, increasing the base infamy in nightmare from 4000 to 4500 or 5000 will give us some time to find a solution to this problem.
• Changing reset point from 4000 to 4500 or 5000 is a temporary solution. It won't solve the problem.

The problem is that ranked games are less appealing from events. (Specially for nightmare players). The game is so repetitive for all Top players. Also, league rewards are so useless compared to event rewards (Nightmare league rewards are negligible compared to event rewards. What can we say about ace and lower leagues rewards?).
• Increasing league rewards & Adjusting Event rewards will make regulars more appealing: people will play more ranked games, and people won't intentionally drop any infamy. In other words, all players who are capable of gaining infamy (sealclubbers/op players in low leagues) will try to gain more infamy to climb to higher leagues (simply because they want these new op league rewards).
We need better season rewards to play regulars and gain infamy again. Else, u will see more ppl intentionally dropping infamy, and they will play for couple days per week (event days).
• Give us better league rewards, and adjust events rewards to make them equally appealing.

*u can skip this part*
Some ppl will keep playing for guild quests, but they won't aim for infamy. Soon, they will stop contributing for guild quests, because guild raffle rewards are negligible compared to event rewards too.

 

I personally don’t believe having multiple resettable nightmare leagues will alter the amount of infamy consumed on the top in any big way, haven’t looked at it in detail, but that’s my gut feeling. I think the pressure will be about the same (over time), it will only relay infamy over a few more steps than before.

I do however think multiple nightmare leagues is a very good idea, and I’ve been wanting (and asking) for it for a while. The most important thing multiple reset points will do is even out the big disturbance from nightmare resets. Infamy reset probably creates huge waves of displaced infamy down several leagues. By not resetting 6k players to 4K this disturbance will probably much more gentle. It will reduce what must be super frustrating loss streaks for many “close to nightmare”-players just after reset.

It would also reduce the frustrating feeling of all your hard work vanishing out the window at reset. There really is no point of climbing in nightmare unless you think you’re able to hit top 10 at the moment. Rewards are the ~same, and it’s all gone at reset.

TL;DR: I’m all for multiple nightmare leagues, and think it will benefit nightmare players. I don’t think it helps players on the bottom, other than helping reduce the infamy disturbances that bubble down the ranks after reset.

 

Sure, but unless there’s enough players, matchmaking will just start to be more elastic and bring in these unwanted players in your match anyway. I do not know how dense or sparsely populated the bottom is, but maybe devs can shed some light on that.

I also do not know for sure why they moved nightmare reset, but I suspect it was because they recently had a big influx of new players moving up the ranks, then it makes sense to do so. I do not believe that is the case now (as infamy ladder feels pretty stale - there are currently no big influx of new players).

I would love to see a chart of actve players over time, and their infamy distribution. Would help these discussions a lot

 

@Nicolas and @Cpt Obvious made good arguments that raising the reset value is only a temporary fix. Everyone infamy will be raise by the % of the increase reset value. Players who can win 2000 infamy points will still win 2000 infamy points after the new reset. Eventually, the lost infamy will still be closer to what it is right now due to less people can get to the new reset point. I do favor the 5k reset for other reasons. 1) To create separate league for NM. 2) To implement a system where infamy doesn't flow up so much.

How does a new system works? Let assume all battles exchange 120 infamy points between the winning and losing teams. Giving a battle where there are 4 5k infamy players from each team. One team have a 6k player and one team have a 4k player. The 4K player wins 33 points but lost only 15 points (+/-9 points). This system is still separating player like PeterKing against everyone else. The system should start at 4K infamy battle when there are people with infamy less than 4K. The different in ratio is only high in NM. Borderline NM should only be +/-2 max.

3 advantages to this system I can think off right now. 1) Less infamy will be chopped off every season. 2) Still not much easier to get to NM but it's as difficult to stay in NM for those borderline players. 3) This will move the so called seal clubbers farther away from the new players.

 

Regarding the manual reset to 3500 stated by @Ash KOT, I think you're wrong about that. Infamy is a pretty accurate of where you are relative to your skill, loadout, and training. You will eventually go back to where your skill, loadout, and training can take you after a good number of battle like @Cpt Obvious stated.

I also disagree with few highly skill NM players stating that they can easily get back to NM if reset to 2K. You're assuming that you still using your current loadouts with all the training done. I believe that if you have the same level items as @Ash KOT and the same training, you skills can probably take you about 500-1000 infamy points higher. The reason why you're able to win 1000+ infamy points now is that your items are already top tier. Very few people have better items so skills play a big role. This is not a skill based game so skills can only take you so far. If you put 5 most skilled players in BB with all tier 5 rares and MK6s against 5 player like me (low end NM player) with all tier epics in MK7s, I doubt you going to be anywhere close to 50% win rate after a good amount of games (500-1000).

 

This just describes me very accurately!!

 

Even if temporary, it is necessary at this point. Multiple Nightmare leagues is long overdue, and it will go along way to improving Infamy across the board.

 

So you’re saying top 5 players with max rare items is going to beat low end NM players in max epics 90% of the time?

 

Note I’m all for multiple nightmare leagues, each with it’s own reset level. It will greatly reduce infamy disturbances around reset.

My answer was to someone who (only) proposed to change today’s reset from 4000 to 5000 - Which I think accomplishes very little except for making people feel a little better about their higher infamy for a while, until they realize they face the same people, with the same items, stuck at same relative position.

 

More like 99% of the time.

 

https://forum.battlebay.net/threads/season-rewards-reworked.20836/

The solution I proposed (click link above) seems to solve a bunch of the concerns in this thread.

(I get that it's a "temporary" fix to add a 5k+ NM league, but it's still worth doing.)

 

Nicely done!
However, even with the new leagues rewards event rewards are much more appealing. Event rewards should be adjusted (based on leagues). This will make both (event and ranked games) equally appealing. ppl who are capable of gaining infany will climb to higher leagues to get the new valuable leagues rewards + to get better event rewards.

(Some ppl will say that events aren't based on leagues, so rewards shouldn't be based on leagues. Events are based on gear score, so rewards should be based on gear score. This means that ppl will play events using their most reliable setup. This leads to no more ppl are dropping gear score intentionally.)

Give me two tables: one is about leagues rewards, and the second one is about event rewards.
Include some calculations which proves that both (events and ranked games) will be equally appealing. (Events should be a little bit more appealing than ranked games)
In other words, we play two events per season. Let's say that season takes around 8 days/ events takes around 4 days (+2 common days), so season rewards should be equivalent to two events rewards.


Why do you post your solutions on a separate thread?

 

I was talking to someone yesterday about our infamy problem. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but tell me what's wrong here.

Ways infamy can be lost:

1. Losing
2. Inactivity
3. Nightmare Reset

Ways infamy can be gained:

1. Winning

If it's not clear already, there's going to be a drop in total infamy if this keeps up. In the past infamy was only gained and lost through winning and losing. Infamy was added into the system out of thin air when bots were defeated, but bot games don't grant infamy anymore. You begin at 0 infamy once you reach level 10, I believe. Meanwhile the nightmare reset is chipping away at our total infamy and now we have the inactivity drops. That lost infamy is gone forever, and it seems like no new infamy is being generated now that bot games have no value to the ranking system.

 

I totally disagree with the new inactivity system. There should be a rule that if u are 1k+ infamy below ur highest infamy ever then u won't be affected by the inactivity dropping infamy system. Some ppl reach 6k+ each season (PeterKing). Couple seasons ago he was around 6900 infamy. At the end of that season:
Devs: Take these couple legendary pieces.
PeterKing: Thank you
Devs: ur infamy is back to 4000. we had to substract 2900 infamy from ur profile.
PeterKing:
Devs: GoodLuck in the new season.
PeterKing:

PeterKing plays three-four days at the end of each season, and he manages to reach the first place in nightmare. Now, he should care about additional infamy drop if he wants couple months break from Battle Bay.

Anyway, I agree that there should be some other ways to gain infamy. Maybe, ppl should start each season from a specific infamy (based on cpt lvl and average gear score). This works only if you are below this specific infamy. On the other hand, leagues should be based on ur infamy at the end of the season.

Stay on Topic.

PeterKing:

 

Bots no longer grant infamy?

 

Once you reach level 10 you don't see bots anymore. It's at this point that you finally enter the infamy system. Up until then it's been a mix of bots and other noobs, typically 1~6 real players per battle.

 

This is off-topic:
To all ppl who say that new players need op event rewards to gain infamy.
To all ppl who say that u need t5 epic at 1k infamy.
To all ppl who believe that gaining infamy is harder than what it used to be in the past.

#QWYVWFVB
I know it's hard to believe it, but this is a mk1 at 2200 infamy. He has t2/t3 epic weapons. All his ships are mk1s.

This proves that u need skills to gain infamy.
ppl who wants to stay at low leagues to face weak opponents won't gain any skills.
ppl who wants to sealclub to face weak opponents won't gain any skills.
ppl who blame 50:50 system won't gain any skills.
This man manages to reach 2200+ infamy using mk1 ships with t2/t3 epic weapons.
He has skills.

I respect MK1 King.

ppl are capable of gaining infamy when they want to improve their skills. Don't blame matchmaking. Blame yourselves.
We need higher leagues rewards, so more ppl will try their best to gain more skills. ppl will gain more infamy to get better leagues rewards. ppl are capable of gaining infamy.

Respect MK1 King.
Let's make him famous.