DevReply Why is the sniper cannon balanced?!?

Just increase its cooldown to 12s,rest remains same.No further changes and get it over with

 

Grrrr... I missed that, my bad. So in your case the sniper outperformed the flare/blast by a whopping 62%
Any chance I can get screen shots of the weapons with the damage popup activated? That'd give me the exact inputs for the spreadsheet so I can normalize your weapons. (edit... I'd also need to know what you had Bhurt level 16 & 17 for the crit damage bonuses... or just tell me the total of the two, no screencap necessary)

So just to keep this thread updated, we have me showing the sniper underperforming on my shooter relative to the standard cannon. Shadow Moon has it massively outperforming flare/blast.

Does anyone else have data?

 

Something that is “not given significance” and something being “insignificant”, are very very different things.

A lot of people are trying to compare Blast and Sniper, as though they had the same range, and that Blast can make all the same shots that Sniper can make. Obviously, they then conclude Blast is better because it can do bigger damage. But in reality, it can barely make half the shots that Sniper can make.

I will grant you that ‘how much’ range is worth is somewhat debatable. But it is certainly not ‘insignificant’, which is what some people are pretending.

I’m not really sure where walruses and cheetahs come into this. But if I knew 75% of the races were going to be on dry land, then I would obviously bet on the cheetahs to win more races. Wouldn’t you?

 

That's not what I concluded.

I concluded the blast would have more potential damage but the range and convenience of the sniper would overcome that. The question on the table is, "to what degree?" That's why I'm working on getting real combat data from two platforms designed to use the weapons in question. I'm scared as hell to run my shooter though (tanking penalty). So here's a plea to the thread...

If someone here runs sniper, could I get 20 consecutive replay links from you? I think 20 ought to do the job for a rough statistical analysis and they should be consecutive to avoid any possibility of cherry picking... conscious or not. You don't need to record and upload the videos although that'd help me doing the hit counting. If that's too much trouble (and it's a pain), just post the links here and I'll run the replays.

My thought is this:
If we look at those weapons in the hands of competent users on boats designed to use them we should be able to get a good idea of actual hit rate in real combat conditions. If I have that, along with the base data on training, perks, and item level, then I can normalise those generic hits to any training level or perk distribution I want. I already run the flare/blast combo so I can get numbers for that. It would be best if your ran dual sniper but I'd be content just doubling the numbers from one sniper to compare with the flare/blast combo.

 

Right now my all talents are on blast you will have to wait untill I retrain them to sniper again and note down the statistics but I can tell you by my observation alone people I know who use both sniper and blast got sniper way quicker than blast.
I recently upgraded my blast to T5R, before it was way too weaker compared to sniper of same rarity. My brother who uses rare t4 sniper is just another 30,00,000 away for legendary sniper and my blast being epic t4 and more battles than my brother I still need another 40,00,000+ for legendary.

 

Another fun fact I got my epic sniper in just 8 days from achievement 140 odd battles and it took me nearly 4x amount of matches to get my epic blast.

 

No, Make the cooldown to about 13-14 seconds. While making the damage to +30%
Or, to make everything balanced?
Make all ships increased HP by 20%
Make all weapons increase damage by 10%

AYYYYY! i'm now an active member

 

Well I'm going to call that pretty conclusive. That seems like about as fair a test as we could possibly hope for... overall damage.

In fact thats exactly what @Lil_Torta and I were going to do but with a much inferior data set.

Thank you so much!

So does anyone on this thread still see some loophole or way in which the sniper is somehow superior? It is bursty, which means sometimes it stings and that, perhaps, leaves a memory. But what it isn't, is overall more powerful in terms of damage done.

 

how about!... Explosive cannon has 30-40% less damage, the splash is increased by 2 radius (thats alot). Make the cooldown to 10 seconds. This way, blast cannon won't be really competing against the E cannon.
And for sniper, the crit should be increased to 20% with all trains, the perks will only give 2%,4%,6%, (maximum 44%) So, overall. The crit chance is reduced. Also, the crit damage shouls be reduced by 30%.
So this way,
Sniper can have a lot of range, high crit chance, decent crit damage, ok reload speed
E cannon does decent damage, good splash for close teams, decent reload speed
B cannon does high point damage, ok reload speed
Now none of the cannons are really competing against each other, balanced?

And for the regular cannon *hello darkness my old friend*. It starts off at doing 20% less damage.
But each hit you hit an enemy, the damage in increased by 10%

 

except at this point you are fixing a non-problem. They already ARE balanced.

If you wish to focus on differentiation I think there's some room between the blast & exploding cannons but overall they are performing well.

 

no. The E cannon will get lower damage but higher splash. And the B cannon does high point damage. Now there's a great room

 

So overall for this thread, make the sniper begin with 10% crit chance, (2, 5%crit chance talents). It has a higher regular crit chance, but the perks will be nerfed.
Uncommon = 2%, rare 4%, epic 6%
So overall, the chance on an >tier 4 epic sniper are 44% crit chance (I think that's lower than normal)
Or, the perks are 2%,3%,4%. Total of 36%

AND MAKE THE CRIT DAMAGE REDUCED BY 30%

 

Case closed
thank you

 

I can help if you want to run your own test still. I run triple sniper with 45 tier 4E, 37.5 tier 4R, and 30 tier 4R.

 

Higher CD with slight increase in damage doesn’t seem that bad.

 

I don't really see the point now. The question is defintiively answered and with a data set covering all of Battle Bay. At this point the only interesting thing I can think of is that it'd be fascinating to see the actual hit distribution as a function of range but that's an awful lot of work for idle curiosity.

 

Well being an avid sniper user is really mostly about how you position yourself and if you can have a friend cover you. There is no way you can ever lead into a fight sniper cannons blazing. You get blasted down so quickly and you rarely can take anyone with you because of how lucky you would have to be with your crits. There have been times were I get all crits. There have also been times I have gotten none at all. Also rarely do I get to press the button and get a hit with SC unless they are standing still. The only time that works is if they are maybe 15 range away? I usually have to lead my shots. But I’m talking about being on an x plane while the enemy is moving on a y plane.

 

Thank you Miika

 

One of the best parts about Battle Bay is the way the devs treat us. I love it that Miika dropped in, gave us the data un-spun, and left again. Usually us players have to painstakingly collect data, sometimes by doing frame-by-frame video reviews or else the devs give us marketing speek rather than data.