DevReply Why is the sniper cannon balanced?!?

You are right as average sniper cannon damage will never reach 90%, of blast cannon damage










But it easily reach 70% and even 80% and that is too much if we mention that sniper cannon has 2x range and speed

 

Not correct. A fully trained sniper with 4 crit% perks has 43% crit chance. Most people min/max'ers would sacrifice one of those making it 38.5%.

(OK, I'm being pedantic but I learned the error of my ways earlier not having 100% factual numbers on this thread)

 

If that’s true than provide me damage values of a Lvl 50 Epic BC & Epic Sniper, also provided that the BC has all 4 Epic Damage Perks & the Sniper has all 4 Epic Crit Chance perks. If you provide the values I’ll do the math and we will see (together) what the real percentage is. Otherwise stop claiming something your not sure of.

 

Except no, it cannot easily reach 70% or 80%. In fact, it cannot reach that at all. I know facts are hard in this new post-factual world but they exist all the same and reality is very stubborn.

Now... on to that ease of use thing. Like every other pro-nerf person on this thread you are making wild speculations about how much impact the increased range & accuracy has. Let's see some actual numbers because my numbers don't confirm it. Rovio's numbers don't confirm it. And NOBODY ELSE has been able to confirm it. This in a situation where making the assessment is like 1 screen shot for anyone who uses a sniper and some other cannon.

 

You also said that sniper cannon deal 50% of blast cannon damage and you don't have any lvl 40, lvl 50 blast cannon

So this mean we both don't know what we are talking about

And no one say then stop saying it is OP if you don't know what you are talking about , because sniper cannon is OP i can feel it in my bones

 

We need real numbers. Without em we can only speculate.

 

OK, let's deconstruct this one at a time...

I can confirm that +90% of sniper users use it for its crit chance
Fair enough. That is, after all, the weapon's main characteristic. So what's your point? It's a weapon that gives you 43% "good damage" (not excellent, just good) and 57% poor damage. It happens to also be easy to use for beginners.

I have seen top players using it ,even speeder, and most of times shooters use it
Again, what does all that prove? There's a handful of speeders and whatnot that prefer sniper. In addition, shooters who have lots of gun tubes find that allocating one of them for the long range hit is useful. Over all, (as I remember), 40-something percent of top players mount one. Big deal.

Well I am at 3.4k infamy and i see a lot and a lot of players use it , so even those players who have mastered their aim still use it because skill wont give blast cannon more range.
Again, of course it's an obvious choice if you have lots of gun tubes (shooters). It is a very flexible weapon and on a shooter you have other weapons for "punch". My guess is you see an awful lot less of them on non-shooters... the fewer tubes the fewer snipers. That's because they are inefficient.

If it can deal 70-80% as average damage of blast cannon with 2x range and 2x speed well then it is a better choice
Well sure. And if it did 3000% damage it'd also be a better choice. But that's a hypothetical statement. In actual game play it does 60% of the damage of a blast cannon... some of which is overcome by the flexibility.

NOT A SINGLE PERSON ON THIS THREAD HAS PROVEN THEIR POINT THAT THE FLEXIBILITY CAN OVERCOME THAT SORT OF DAMAGE POTENTIAL DESPITE THE PROOF BEING ONE SCREEN SHOT AWAY.

 

We have real numbers. We have my one damage post. We have the theory which was exhaustive and aligns with the experimental data. We have Rovio's [unpublished] experimental data which also supports the theoretical math. We have the anecdotal evidence of it's usage among top players. All of this points to the notion that sniper is not OP.

On the other side we have... *crickets*

 

Didn't I just do this? I'm happy to publish the spreadsheet out in google drive so other people can see the cold hard facts for themselves.

 

Please link me the damage post haha. This thread is way too deep for me to want to dig. Or simply give me the average damage on each gun (given that they both are lvl 50 Epics with maxed perks and trainings. Sniper has Crit Perks and BC has Damage Perks to be clear. Can u post those two?

 

Sniper with 3 crit% and 1 cannon damage, all epic 50 (more optimum than your setup with all crit perks)
Blast with 4 burn damage, all at epic 50. -- assumption is 80% of my targets are burning

Sniper: Normal: 844 / Crit: 2110 / Average: 1332
BC: Normal: 1362 / Burn: 2016 / Average: 1885

Here's a few highlights:

The blast cannon without perks is better than the sniper by 30 points.
With perks it pulls ahead by a whopping 42%

Someone complained about me counting the combo. I can adjust the "burning target" rate downwards and discount my flare gun. I'd guess that roughly 30% of the targets I attacked would be burning anyway. But honestly, if I did that I'd probably end up with a mix of cannon damage & burn perks and that would change the numbers for the better. More to the point, why would I discount the combo? It's an advantage BC has over sniper. It would be better to compare my full salvo of flare/blast with dual snipers. I don't want to run yet another set of numbers on flare so let's just go with what... 70 damage over 17.5 seconds or 1225 damage.

Flare/Blast = 3110
Sniper/Sniper: 2664
Difference 17%

Of course this discounts all the OTHER bonus fire damage that flare is causing.

No matter how you look at it, the BC is a stronger weapon if you have the skill and cojones to make it work for you. I think the sniper starts to shine when you're looking at a shooter with gun tubes to spare. Suddenly, the reduced damage on one tube isn't nearly as important as the flexibility.

 

SNIPER Canon

6 Shots of Base Damage=5,064

4 Shots of Crit Damage=8,440

Totaling=13,504 DMG


BLAST Canon

10 Shots of Base Damage (with burn bonus perks)=20,160

Totaling=20,160


BC 20,160/13,504 SC


Sniper Canon deals on Average 66.98% of the capable damage a BC deals. Considering the given Perks and Values provided by - Snapshot
Keep in consideration the BC had 4 Bonus Damage Perks (As most top rank players run for the 12% bonus dmg)
Also the Sniper ran 3 Crit Chance & 1 Dmg Boost resulting in a slightly higher damage output overall than someone running 4 Crit Chance perks.

 

Fellow math geeks unite!

So yes, by my formulas (which seem to more or less match with what some of those players who have these weapons say) the sniper cannon needs to overcome about a 40% advantage in raw damage in order to compete. I have no doubts that it's flexibility and accuracy do, in fact, overcome a substantial portion of that. That's why it shows up in the top player lists at all.

 

Worth noting that I just 1v1'd with a M6 speeder toting dual snipers. One was E40, the other R40. His gearscore is 7794 compared to my Mark 5's 5621. It was an open water dual so there were no real obstacles other than the waves to block his shots. I won.

OK, I get it that I'm better than most (if Miika's charts are right). But that guy had every possible advantage in that battle including dual supposed OP weapons... one of them epic!

 

What on Earth are you talking about? I haven’t given up on maths — let’s do the maths!

(DISCLAIMER)I had to painstakingly work this out from my shop stats, so feel free to point out any calculation errors. I’m going to assume Blast and Sniper are both lv40 Epics, with 4x damage and crit chance perks (respectively). They will also have optimal Bhurt training up to t4. And I have rounded some decimals to the nearest number, for convenience.

Blast has a base damage of 584, +15 +87% for training and perks. Giving it a total damage of 1120 with a 1% chance to crit for 2240. That gives it an average damage output of 1131 per hit.

Sniper has a base of 433, +15 + 30% for training and (not) perks. Giving it a total damage of 582 with a 45% chance to crit for 1456. That gives it an average damage output of 955 per hit.

Blast has a range of 22 +10% = 24
Sniper has a range of 40 + 5% = 42

Blast has a projectile speed of 18+20% = 22
Sniper has a projectile speed of 40+20%= 48

So already we see that Sniper is sacrificing only 15% Damage, for an extra 75% range, and 100% faster projectile speed.

If we spread the average damage across the range of the weapon 85% x 175% = 148.75%. Which should give you some idea of how much better Sniper is (nearly 50%). That corresponds to 1682 points of damage, for every 1131 that Blast can do.

But wait there is more... that’s only if we ‘generously’ assume that Blast has 100% accuracy (which it definitely does not). I won’t speculate here on the accuracy of each weapon (because we’re just sticking to the facts, right?). However, with more than double the projectile speed, you can speculate for yourself how much further that will tip the odds in Sniper’s favour.

Let me put it another way for you... If Blast can land 5 shots in a game, Sniper would only need to land 6 to be a demonstrably more powerful weapon. That’s one extra shot, and 75% more range in which to find it.

 

Thanks man but we did the math already and we did it accurately with Crew Trainings in favor of each weapon so nothing was skewed or altered. If you refer to the post I had earlier we found that there was a greater than 15% Damage fall off between BC and SC. SC actually only did 66.98% of the total damage a BC dealt in 10 Shots. We took into account for Crits and all that stuff. So thanks for your contribution but your incorrect and you used skewed values in your calculations. SC deals 33.02% less than a Blast Cannon in a 10 Shot comparison.

 

My calculation is more accurate (and I did all the crew training too and showed my workings). You only did 40% for Sniper crit (talk about skewed), You didn’t factor Blast crit at all, or range, and you seem to be comparing burn damage, which required a whole extra weapon and a second shot, which is hugely flawed and inaccurate, and no mention of where you got these numbers from, or what you’re comparing.

 

Yea buddy well great job taking your values from the shop lol

Edit: I’ll also note we accounted for 4 Crits out of 10 Shots (which by the way is the average) regardless of giving it a lesser Crit chance for in turn a greater damage output cause of a bonus damage perk. So no the values were not skewed in a way that favors SC but actually favors BC. But great job not recognizing it and thinking somehow we gave BC a disadvantage.

We also included Burn Perks on BC cause without it you wouldn’t have the highest possible damage outcome. Also we didn’t include the chance of Crit on BC either. And guess what IF WE DID THE DAMAGE VALUES BETWEEN SC AND BC WOULD BE VASTLY GREATER! We given SC the worst scenario it could have and yet it still only reaches 66.98% of BC’s damage potential.

So please disregard actual facts and percentages given from people who really have these setups and please go depend on what your ingame Shop results show.